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It is arguable whether Jesus used the Septuagint, it isn't arguable whether his followers and the NT writers did.
I see, so its better that Christs followers words in the NT are wrong rather than your 'infallible' church.
Since they (the diciples) were the firstfruits how did they get that wrong?
Since Jesus came FIRST to the jews, why would he be speaking latin instead of hebrew and why would he not be using the scriptures they knew?
No its only arguable to those who refuse the truth. Jesus came to the Jews (hebrews) He was using the hebrew scriptures with the pharisees who taught them and knew them, they would not have accepted anything else.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
Since they (the diciples) were the firstfruits how did they get that wrong?
It's one of many questions you ought to ask yourself.
Quote:
Since Jesus came FIRST to the jews, why would he be speaking latin instead of hebrew and why would he not be using the scriptures they knew?
You mean Greek?
Quote:
No its only arguable to those who refuse the truth. Jesus came to the Jews (hebrews) He was using the hebrew scriptures with the pharisees who taught them and knew them, they would not have accepted anything else.
So are you going to answer the point about the NT writers and the inerrant scripture you believe in? Or is that one of the things you just ignore?
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
It's one of many questions you ought to ask yourself.
You mean Greek?
So are you going to answer the point about the NT writers and the inerrant scripture you believe in? Or is that one of the things you just ignore?
No i mean hebrew, the jews (hebrews) in the temple with the scrolls taught them in hebrew like they were written.
You are getting that confused because the nt is written in greek. We were talking about the OLD testament where Jesus cited the HEBREW scripture division.
Yes, just like Martin Luther did, or anyone else who writes out a canon does.
Were you under the impression that the Bible and the canon fell out of the sky one day?
She's moving goalposts, confusing the actual writings themselves with the canons they are prescribed to. When you rectify that, she'll pull a vice versa.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
No i mean hebrew, the jews (hebrews) in the temple with the scrolls taught them in hebrew like they were written.
You said "latin."
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilenceInMotion
She's moving goalposts, confusing the actual writings themselves with the canons they are prescribed in. When you rectify that, she'll pull a vice versa.
This is what it is to debate with Protestants.
To be fair, I would say "Evangelicals," not "Protestants."
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
She's moving goalposts, confusing the actual writings themselves with the canons they are prescribed in. When you rectify that, she'll pull a vice versa.
This is what it is to debate with Protestants.
Actually that is what zippy is doing and also desperately trying to take what i say out of context and confuse it.
I really do not care what either of you believe. Everyone knows the OT scriptures were complete before the church, and anyone knows that Christ came to the jews (hebrews) and would have been citing their scriptures to them which were written in hebrew since they were the scribes and teachers of the law, which was in hebrew.
No way he was quoting them in greek or latin, because the division he cited ended at 2 chronicles.
Now if you 2 need to twist and writhe, better check yourselves before God, because nowhere does He tell you to hold your church higher than Him.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 09:46 PM
Here's an idea: try addressing points that challenge your worldview instead of shuffling them under the carpet. Christ is the truth after all, no need to shy away from an argument.
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Well, you are non-denominational, so I would guess a non-denominational church where all Protestant and Baptist beliefs just sort of clump together into whatever turns the attendees on.
Jus' sayin. But I could be wrong. After all, I was once non-denominational and realized the fact that in such a state, one is pretty much on their own in interpretation.
Are you going to admit that, or are you just going to pretend you have backing from other churches? Because the fact of the matter is that you are a heretic to all of them.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilenceInMotion
Well, you are non-denominational, so I would guess a non-denominational church where all Protestant and Baptist beliefs just sort of clump together into whatever turns the attendees on.
Angel: I don't mean to be so hard on you, it is just very frustrating to me when someone will not acknowledge simple facts and answer simple questions about their belief/denomination etc. You anti-intellectual attitude when it comes to things like the canon strikes me as harmful to Christianity and frustrating to boot. I will try to be more patient in the future, but this will probably continue to be a problem if you do not start addressing the points posed to you.
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Who or what possesses the inherent authority to declare on behalf of all Christians which teachings "go well beyond what is to be found in Scripture" (there's your assumption of sola scriptura again), and which do not? You? Your denomination? Your pastor? Please post your answer.
I'll have a go at this one!
The people who have the authority to determine thus are the old men of the Vatican, the ones who tell us what Jesus and Mary and the saints would have done to promote misery and its value in the world...
...and who will, at no extra charge, and in line with the criminal intent to pervert the course of justice that is enshrined in canon law, conceal the rape of children and expose more unsuspecting children to a child-raping priest by moving him.
Stuart
As Cruciform has me on ignore now, I'll have to supply his answer myself:
Your anti-Catholic bias is showing Stuu. See #42. Your non-sequitur is noted.
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