[drbrumley]

Collect Rain Water on Your Property . . .

Posted by Thomas DiLorenzo on July 29, 2012 08:14 PM


. . . and the Jackson County, Oregon government will force you to live in a cage for a month and pay them $1500. That's what happened to Gary Harrington recently.

Private property no longer exists in Oregon, where the ghost of totalitarian communism is being resurrected. "Abolish Private Property!" was the cornerstone of The Communist Manifesto and of all other socialist propaganda during the twentieth century.

Oregon criminalizes permaculture; claims state ownership over all rainwater - ponds and swales restricted - jail time for violators

[rexlunae]

Just because you own land doesn't mean you own the water rights to the land. Far from a case of collectivism robbing private property owners of their rights, this is a case of one private property right, the right to owned land, coming into conflict with another form of private property, water rights. At least from what I can figure from random Internet blogs.

http://angrywhitedude.com/2012/07/ga...nment-bullies/

Also, he didn't go to jail until he violated his probation. Not sure what else he expects.

[Nick M]

They must think they are God.

[zoo22]

Water rights aren't as simple as "it's my property so the water is mine." If the water flow from his property effects other properties (including impeding natural water flow), the government has a say. The government regulating water flow/water rights has always been the case.

Hard to say from this manic article exactly what's going on, but I suspect that's the case.

[mighty_duck]

The only ones covering this are far-right news and talking heads. I haven't seen a single lefty op-ed about it, whether for or against. It feels like we're missing key points, like the nature of water flow in and out of his property.

And as usual, they prefer sensational headlines to truth. "Collect rainwater and get thrown in to jail" - nevermind that the authorities have been warning him for about a decade that his artificial ponds are illegal, and giving him every chance to comply with the law.

[highlife]

I always through that water rights only applied to actual rivers and lakes and they had to be applied for. Water rights in some states are a big deal and they protect farmers from someone upstream cutting off water flow.

However if all he was doing was creating artificail dams to perhaps make power, etc that should not be a water rights issue unless someone can prove that it was preventing them from getting ground water into a well or if he damed up an existing river that someone had water rights too.

We dont know the issues here, but if the govt just fined him and there were no competeing interests in the water that were documented then this was an overstep of the govt. He should not have to comply with random whims of local govt, if they cant prove that someone down stream of him has documented water rights then they are in fact acting in a totalitarian manner.

[rexlunae]

Originally Posted by mighty_duck

The only ones covering this are far-right news and talking heads. I haven't seen a single lefty op-ed about it, whether for or against. It feels like we're missing key points, like the nature of water flow in and out of his property.

This is absolutely correct. However, even from some of the right wing blogs you can tell the narrative we're being fed isn't the whole story.

Originally Posted by mighty_duck

And as usual, they prefer sensational headlines to truth. "Collect rainwater and get thrown in to jail" - nevermind that the authorities have been warning him for about a decade that his artificial ponds are illegal, and giving him every chance to comply with the law.

He apparently got sentenced to probation, and then went ahead and filled his ponds again as soon as he settled. That's why he went to jail. He violated his probation, and he knew better.

[highlife]

Originally Posted by rexlunae

This is absolutely correct. However, even from some of the right wing blogs you can tell the narrative we're being fed isn't the whole story.



He apparently got sentenced to probation, and then went ahead and filled his ponds again as soon as he settled. That's why he went to jail. He violated his probation, and he knew better.

So if the govt dictated that you could not have sex with your wife anymore and you went ahead and did so and went to jail, then it would be your own fault?

[kmoney]

Originally Posted by mighty_duck

And as usual, they prefer sensational headlines to truth. "Collect rainwater and get thrown in to jail" - nevermind that the authorities have been warning him for about a decade that his artificial ponds are illegal, and giving him every chance to comply with the law.

In a different article (I didn't read the one in the opening post) it said that he did apply for permits and I believe even had them but then for some reason they were taken away. I'm not sure why they were retracted.

I have mixed feelings on this. I tend to think that if I own a property I should be able to collect rain water on it, whether that is through artificial and/or natural tools, but it might come down to a matter of degree. If he was actually impacting the flow of water in streams and it was affecting other people I can see the potential need to step in. I don't know what the full consequences of his collection were.

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Originally Posted by rexlunae

This is absolutely correct. However, even from some of the right wing blogs you can tell the narrative we're being fed isn't the whole story.

He apparently got sentenced to probation, and then went ahead and filled his ponds again as soon as he settled. That's why he went to jail. He violated his probation, and he knew better.

You seem knowledgeable about water rights. Is this typical of all states?

[rexlunae]

Originally Posted by highlife

So if the govt dictated that you could not have sex with your wife anymore and you went ahead and did so and went to jail, then it would be your own fault?

Point taken, but it's not as if the government was trying to stop him from using something that was his in the first place. It was actually stopping him from taking something that belonged to someone else.

[kmoney]

Originally Posted by rexlunae

Point taken, but it's not as if the government was trying to stop him from using something that was his in the first place. It was actually stopping him from taking something that belonged to someone else.

Was he? According to the article in the opening post, the law isn't against catching water in some ways. Others are illegal. Are they making an arbitrary distinction?


Also, I notice how you speak about a wife as being property.

[zoo22]

Eagle Point man jailed for illegal water reservoirs

Here is a full account of the court hearing and the charges from the OWRD:

July 27, 2012 - Harrington Conviction and Sentence for 11 Years of Illegal Water Use

On Wednesday July 11, 2012, a Jackson County Circuit Court Jury convicted Eagle Point resident Gary A. Harrington on nine counts, each related to the unauthorized use of water. Under Oregon law, all water is publicly owned, and those who wish to use it for their own purposes must obtain a water right permit issued by the Oregon Water Resources Department (OWRD). State law grants various exceptions to this requirement, including an exception for collecting precipitation water that gathers on an artificial impervious surface, such as a rooftop or parking lot; in rain barrels, for example.

Harrington stored and used water illegally by placing dams across channels on his property and preventing the flow of water out of these artificial reservoirs without obtaining a water right permit. The height of each dam varies; two dams stand about ten feet tall and the third stands about 20 feet tall. The total amount of water collected behind these dams totals about 40 acre feet; enough to fill almost 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools. These man-made reservoirs feature boat docks, boats, and were stocked by Harrington with trout and Bluegill for recreational fishing.

The state first identified Harrington’s illegal water use more than ten years ago and initiated enforcement action to discontinue his illegal use of water. After numerous attempts by OWRD and the Watermaster to achieve voluntary compliance, the Department enlisted the assistance of the Oregon State Police in 2002. Citations were issued, and Harrington pleaded guilty to several violations. He was assessed a nominal fine and ordered to drain the three reservoirs, which he did. However, Harrington again closed the headgates in 2004 and refilled the reservoirs. As a result, OWRD and the Oregon State Police submitted reports to the Jackson County District Attorney’s Office alleging additional violations of Oregon water law. That office filed misdemeanor charges against Harrington, and in 2008 he pled guilty to one count. He was issued another fine, placed on one year probation, and was again ordered to drain the reservoirs.

According to testimony in the most recent trial, the day after Harrington’s probation expired, he again closed the outlet valves and refilled the reservoirs. The District Attorney’s Office enlisted the help of the Oregon Department of Justice, charges were once again filed in Jackson County Circuit Court, and on July 11, 2012, a jury found Harrington guilty of all nine counts.

On Wednesday the Court sentenced Mr. Harrington to 30 days in jail and three years’ probation, and imposed a $1,500 fine. Judge Timothy Gerking also ordered that the headgates holding back the water be opened and kept open with locks and chains. He also ordered the dams to be breached after the water is drained.

“Mr. Harrington has operated these three reservoirs in flagrant violation of Oregon law for more than a decade,” noted OWRD Deputy Director Tom Paul. “We rely on the judicial system to maintain the rule of law and the Court’s conviction and sentencing in this case has done just that.”

Officials with the Department, in conjunction with the State Police, plan to visit the site during the next several days in order to confirm Harrington’s compliance with court orders

[highlife]

Originally Posted by zoo22

Eagle Point man jailed for illegal water reservoirs

I wonder if he ever applied and was denied a water rights permit. This sounds like the washington DC busting people for concealed carry when they would not issue the permits in the first place.

If the permitting process was reasonable and he could have just filled out the paper work for a nominal fee then I agree it was his own fault, something tells me that he did apply in the past and was denied even though the state likely had no compelling reason to deny him and for most people its too expensive to fight every arrogant abuse of govt power in supreme court.

[zoo22]

Originally Posted by highlife

I wonder if he ever applied and was denied a water rights permit. This sounds like the washington DC busting people for concealed carry when they would not issue the permits in the first place.

If the permitting process was reasonable and he could have just filled out the paper work for a nominal fee then I agree it was his own fault, something tells me that he did apply in the past and was denied even though the state likely had no compelling reason to deny him and for most people its too expensive to fight every arrogant abuse of govt power in supreme court.

Why don't you look it up instead of wondering?

The water he was damming up on his property was water that drained into streams. There's nothing abnormal about the government doing this. There are rules and restrictions about land owners impending water flow. This is nothing new.