[chair]

Mass shootings apparently are more common in the US than in other countries.The question is: why?

I find the phenomenon very disturbing. I don't have an answer- just looking for some serious discussion of what the cause may be.

The usual answers (from all ends of the spectrum) don't ring true to me.

1. "If we only had more gun control..." It would make it technically more difficult to pull off such a crime, but I doubt it would really change things. It certainly doesn't address the motivation behind these crimes.

2. "If we only had less gun control..." Again, a technical 'solution'. Under the best of circumstances a mass shooting would occasionally turn into a shoot-out on some campus or movie theater. In the worst case it would make even easier for some kid to shoot his classmates.

There are countries with strict gun control where these crimes rarely take place. There are countries (like mine) where there is strict gun control, but many have access to weapons due to their military service- yet there are very few of these events.

I think there is some societal reason behind this, but I am not sure what that is:

3. "If people were more religious..." I believe there are more religious people in the US than in many countries where these things do not happen. So this doesn't work as an explanation or a solution.

4. "Too much violence on TV". Maybe, but hard to swallow as an explanation. People all over the world are exposed to US TV shows and movies, yet don't go around shooting up movie theaters.

Any thoughts?

-and let's try to keep this a civilized and serious discussion.

Thanks,

Chair

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by chair

Mass shootings apparently are more common in the US than in other countries.The question is: why?

I find the phenomenon very disturbing. I don't have an answer- just looking for some serious discussion of what the cause may be.

The usual answers (from all ends of the spectrum) don't ring true to me.

1. "If we only had more gun control..." It would make it technically more difficult to pull off such a crime, but I doubt it would really change things. It certainly doesn't address the motivation behind these crimes.

2. "If we only had less gun control..." Again, a technical 'solution'. Under the best of circumstances a mass shooting would occasionally turn into a shoot-out on some campus or movie theater. In the worst case it would make even easier for some kid to shoot his classmates.

There are countries with strict gun control where these crimes rarely take place. There are countries (like mine) where there is strict gun control, but many have access to weapons due to their military service- yet there are very few of these events.

I think there is some societal reason behind this, but I am not sure what that is:

3. "If people were more religious..." I believe there are more religious people in the US than in many countries where these things do not happen. So this doesn't work as an explanation or a solution.

4. "Too much violence on TV". Maybe, but hard to swallow as an explanation. People all over the world are exposed to US TV shows and movies, yet don't go around shooting up movie theaters.

Any thoughts?

-and let's try to keep this a civilized and serious discussion.

Thanks,

Chair

You mean like compared to what the Nazi's did?

Or Communists like to do to unarmed citizens?

Or like druggies like to do? Pablo Escobar?

or gangs?

compared to what?

[Nick M]

The real answer is that the gospel of grace is preached through here to the world. And it has to be stopped. So the enemy tries to bring this country down. If you can't put two and two together, let me know.

[Angel4Truth]

Originally Posted by Nick M

The real answer is that the gospel of grace is preached through here to the world. And it has to be stopped. So the enemy tries to bring this country down. If you can't put two and two together, let me know.

[chair]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

You mean like compared to what the Nazi's did?

Or Communists like to do to unarmed citizens?

Or like druggies like to do? Pablo Escobar?

or gangs?

compared to what?

I am talking about school shootings and recently movie theater shootings. There are far fewer events like that in most European countries, or in Korea for that matter.

I am not trying to bash the US. There is a real problem, and pointing to the Nazi's or Stalin and saying "but they are worse" doesn't make the problem go away.

Do you consider school shootings acceptable? Or would you like to see that aspect of life in the US improve?

[chair]

Originally Posted by Nick M

The real answer is that the gospel of grace is preached through here to the world. And it has to be stopped. So the enemy tries to bring this country down. If you can't put two and two together, let me know.

You are blaming this on Satan?
If so- then how do you propose to change things? Or is it part of a cosmic struggle, and nothing can be done?

[Angel4Truth]

Originally Posted by chair

I am talking about school shootings and recently movie theater shootings. There are far fewer events like that in most European countries, or in Korea for that matter.

I am not trying to bash the US. There is a real problem, and pointing to the Nazi's or Stalin and saying "but they are worse" doesn't make the problem go away.

Do you consider school shootings acceptable? Or would you like to see that aspect of life in the US improve?

UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

Korea (home of the second largest killing spree in modern history):

Woo Bum-kon (or Wou Bom-kon) (February 24, 1955 – April 27, 1982) was a South Korean police officer who carried out the second largest known incident of spree killing in modern history. After the rampage concluded, 57 people (including himself) were dead and 35 were wounded in Gyeongsangnam-do, South Korea.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

[TomO]

Originally Posted by chair

4. "Too much violence on TV". Maybe, but hard to swallow as an explanation. People all over the world are exposed to US TV shows and movies, yet don't go around shooting up movie theaters.

True...but how much of it? Not saying that is the cause per se' but I do think it plays some serious part...but not for the reason you are thinking probably.

Any thoughts?

-and let's try to keep this a civilized and serious discussion.

Thanks,

Chair

A perspective:


http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson...inglepage=true

Originally Posted by Article

One unmentioned fact is that rampage killing is not necessarily a modern phenomenon, although firearms as force multipliers facilitate it and up the horrific body count. Killers in the 19th century often shot down innocent bystanders. Yet I think there are some new developments that already have brought hundreds of millions worldwide into the horrifically demonic mind of the suspect James Holmes.

[TomO]

Originally Posted by chair

You are blaming this on Satan?
If so- then how do you propose to change things?

Shewt 'em.

[rainee]

Hello Chair,
Maybe the individuals feel alienated. And maybe despising of people - like something even further alienated and angry than the Charlie Brown comment when he said in the comic strip "I love mankind - it's people I can't stand!"

Maybe these individuals do not just feel alienated from people but also unable to fit successfully into whatever society they think they should belong too.
Combine that with maybe they also need to establish themselves as someone who matters and is important and should be valued?

So they attack groups where they think they are going to feel some dramatic sort of vengeance, glory and triumph?

I know that all sounds very immature, doesn't it?
Everyone knows we all are always a little alone and easily disconnected if we think about it. We are all different, right?

But I am struck by how young many of these attackers are.
And they are young men - hello.

BUT if any of that is true - it could indeed be an evil, deceiving spirit, the devil,
lying to and tempting these poor idiots.

i'm sorry to say that but that is what i think..

they have an enemy but it ain't us.

[chair]

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

Korea (home of the second largest killing spree in modern history):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

I do not claim that there aren't ANY of these anywhere else. Just that the US seems to have more than it's reasonable proportion.

I gather that many people here simply do not view this as a problem, certainly not as a US problem:

The United States experienced 645 mass-murder events — killings with at least four victims — between 1976 and 2010, according to Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox. When graphed, these incidents show no obvious trend. The numbers go up and down and up again. The total body count: 2,949.

Even if this was comparable to what happens in other countries- I would still be concerned.

[ebenz47037]

Personally, I think it's because too many people get messed up on prescription drugs and that we live in an "It's not my fault!" society. Instead of holding people responsible for their decisions to commit violence, nowadays, we try to find out what happened in that person's life that "caused him/her" to commit the violent act.

[rainee]

Originally Posted by ebenz47037

Personally, I think it's because too many people get messed up on prescription drugs and that we live in an "It's not my fault!" society. Instead of holding people responsible for their decisions to commit violence, nowadays, we try to find out what happened in that person's life that "caused him/her" to commit the violent act.

I agree with E.
We do have lots of booze too and couldn't also slow down a growing up process?


Something else, Chair, E did bring up out society - and it reminded me of old cultures where boys had a rite of passage to go through that made them a man, like the bar mitzvah, right?

Even the Lord Jesus went through something like that at twelve when He went inot the Temple and discussed Scriptures.
Many culture shave something like that. I fear we do not have any thing here in the States to help guide boys and acknowledge them becoming men.

[Yorzhik]

Originally Posted by chair

Mass shootings apparently are more common in the US than in other countries.The question is: why?

I find the phenomenon very disturbing. I don't have an answer- just looking for some serious discussion of what the cause may be.

The usual answers (from all ends of the spectrum) don't ring true to me.

1. "If we only had more gun control..." It would make it technically more difficult to pull off such a crime, but I doubt it would really change things. It certainly doesn't address the motivation behind these crimes.

2. "If we only had less gun control..." Again, a technical 'solution'. Under the best of circumstances a mass shooting would occasionally turn into a shoot-out on some campus or movie theater. In the worst case it would make even easier for some kid to shoot his classmates.

There are countries with strict gun control where these crimes rarely take place. There are countries (like mine) where there is strict gun control, but many have access to weapons due to their military service- yet there are very few of these events.

I think there is some societal reason behind this, but I am not sure what that is:

3. "If people were more religious..." I believe there are more religious people in the US than in many countries where these things do not happen. So this doesn't work as an explanation or a solution.

4. "Too much violence on TV". Maybe, but hard to swallow as an explanation. People all over the world are exposed to US TV shows and movies, yet don't go around shooting up movie theaters.

Any thoughts?

-and let's try to keep this a civilized and serious discussion.

Thanks,

Chair

I think you might be right that the US has more than its share of mass killings. The reasons all add up to this result. The reasons include: a bad justice system, patents on drugs, gun control, and a public school system that teaches kids they are animals and they should do what pleases them at the moment.

[chair]

For those who think there is no issue, here are some statistics