Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual
I am saying we don't have recorded Jesus saying "the body of Christ". It is not found in the Bible as the words of Jesus at all. But Paul did use this phrase / these words.
Your "So?", is because you said Jesus used the phrase.
It is difficult to unite people with falsehood, but some people try. We ought not to be among the unsuspecting.
All I was trying to show was that you cannot build a 'new' doctrine around Paul, when it was Jesus who gave it to Him. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
Do you mean that you believe Paul to be the first person in the body of Christ, or rather the first person to sin in the body of Christ?
Paul did say he is the chief of sinners.
No, he said he was first. Not chief. Go and explain what you think chief of sinners means.
1 Timothy 1:15
This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (protos) Here is the rest.
1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetelestai
The only buffoon around here is you.
Paul wasn't the first sinner.
There is only one Body, Paul was not the first person in it.
Even Paul himself tells us this:
(Rom 16:7 KJV) Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Back to your MAD/Bullingerism books Nick.
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Translation:
1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
Paul said he is protos, and the prototype. You do know what a a prototype is, don't you? I mean, you are an ignorant big mouth buffoon, and the pattern as to why Paul said shut up in church. Because of those like you.
I came out of your lies years ago.
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
Paul is speaking hyperbolically about being the chief of sinners and a demonstration of God's grace to sinners.
MAD's view about being the first sinner, first Christian, etc. in new dispensation is not exegetical. Your word study fallacy is also problematic, but you don't get it because your mind is set like cement.
If he has a thought, he may crack.
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
'Go to hell you pervert' Nick neg rep...
My view is held by the vast majority of godly, capable Christian exegetes through the centuries. The burden of proof is on MAD to show why it is proof texting contrary to the evidence.
What kind of Christian tells a fellow believer or even someone they consider to be an unbeliever (contrary to the evidence in my case) to go to hell as a pervert for disagreeing rightly with a wrong interpretation that is not even a salvific issue?!?!
...those who have not yet had a thought.
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
No, he said he was first. Not chief. Go and explain what you think chief of sinners means.
1 Timothy 1:15 (KJV) This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (protos)
Here is the rest.
1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 [b]However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.[/B]
The word "chief" is in the KJV. It denotes not that Paul was the first person to sin chronologically (that was Eve and then Adam), but that he felt he was the first place (in the position of first (chief)) sinner (the worst of the worst).
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewDay
All I was trying to show was that you cannot build a 'new' doctrine around Paul, when it was Jesus who gave it to Him. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I am showing that the body of Christ that Paul speaks of is the church Jesus speaks of.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
August 17th, 2012, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual
I am showing that the body of Christ that Paul speaks of is the church Jesus speaks of.
amen
Everyday is a new start, to love God, and love others more.
No, he said he was first. Not chief. Go and explain what you think chief of sinners means.
Ephesians 3:8
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Paul said he was the "chief of sinners" because he was the first persecutor of Christians to convert to Christianity. Paul was, in fact, the chief of sinners up to that point. Because he persecuted the body of Christ, he was the greatest sinner to convert to Christ at that time.
Last edited by Paulos; August 19th, 2012 at 12:21 AM.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
After the cross (even before Paul), there were Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians and Samaritan Christians, etc. They were all saved by grace through faith in the person and work of Christ apart from works and became one in Christ (and the Church birthed by the Spirit at Pentecost, not later with a sinner's conversion/Paul).
Were they circumcised?
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
No, he said "Proto". Do you know what a prototype is? We are not going to move past this since I asked you to expalin it, and you haven't.
Quote:
It denotes not that Paul was the first person to sin chronologically (that was Eve and then Adam), but that he felt he was the first place (in the position of first (chief)) sinner (the worst of the worst).
This is what I don't get. I set you up for an easy one. The answer is in the text on what "first" refers to. One more time.
1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
He is first, he is the pattern to the Body of Christ. He was reconciled as an enemy of Christ when he believed. Those prior to him had to have repentence first. They could also lose salvation. See Acts 5, and the rest of the Bible for that matter.
amen
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