ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
The Work of the Holy Spirit and the Gospel -
September 15th, 2012, 04:38 PM
If you are not a Christian I doubt that you will understand this. Those who do not have the Holy Spirit cannot understand things that are of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:12, 13, 14.
There is no mention of a "Holy" Spirit in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament it is "The Spirit of the Lord" or "The Spirit of God" The Spirit of God has always been in the world. However, on the day of Pentecost there was a new manifestation of the Spirit, this Spirit is now refered to as the "Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit brought the Gospel into the world for the very first time and revealed it to the apostles and others on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:11, 12, 13. Up until that time the disciples were not really sure about what Jesus had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection.
Jesus told them that the Holy Spirit would come, John 14:16, 17, 18. Jesus refered to the Holy Spirit as the comforter. Here are some of the things that the Holy Spirit does.
1. Reveals the truth, John 14:17.
3. Teachs all things, John 14: 26.
4. Testifies of Christ, John 15:26.
5. He does not speak of himself, John 16:13.
6. He glorifies Christ, John 16:14.
7. He reveals the Gospel, John 16:14.
The work of the Holy Spirit is related to the Gospel, The Holy Spirit and the Gospel are inseparable. When ever the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is there to convict men of their need for Christ. Paul said to the legalistic Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (the Gospel?)" Galatians 3:2
The Holy Spirit is only given to those who hear and embrace the Gospel as their only means of salvation. Faith in Christ and his Gospel are the only way to heaven, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father but by me," John 14:6. Religion is NOT the way. Religion is the way to hell. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituallity. The Gospel is God's preoccupation with his Son Jesus Christ.
THE CONDITION FOR RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT
No one can receive the Holy Spirit that is not "In Christ." To be "In Christ" means that you have forsaken your own righteousness and you are now trusting in the righteousness of Christ for your salvation. Paul said, "That I might be found in him (Christ) not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith," Philippians 3:9. What this means is that God must see you as perfect and complete "In Christ" before he will bestow upon you the Holy Spirit. This is why many do not have the Holy Spirit, they are NOT "In Christ" Instead they are in Catholicism, a do it yourself works religion or they are Calvinist, the Christ rejecting, predestination religion.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
September 15th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, [And] He fought against them.
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people, [saying]: "Where [is] He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where [is] He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
If you are not a Christian I doubt that you will understand this. Those who do not have the Holy Spirit cannot understand things that are of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:12, 13, 14.
Using your own standards ...Do you understand? Do you have the Holy Spirit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
There is no mention of a "Holy" Spirit in the Old Testament.
"But they ⌊were the ones who⌋rebelled,
and they grieved ⌊his Holy Spirit⌋,
so he ⌊became an enemy to them⌋;
he himself fought against them." Isaiah 63:10.The answer is No,No, you clearly have very little understanding and this is just one of the many blunders of your OSAS dead faith. Too many errors Robert,the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of error now is He? Anyway,thanks again for proving that the OSAS faith is a dead faith!
"Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in me, the works that I am doing he will do also, and he will do greater works* than these because I am going to the Father." John 14:12
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 15th, 2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual
Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, [And] He fought against them.
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people, [saying]: "Where [is] He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where [is] He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
Okay, I should have said there is very little mention of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.
However, the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was a new manifestation of the Holy Spirit that had never taken place before. The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was to reveal the Gospel to the apostles and others. This is the point that I am trying to make.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 15th, 2012, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dona Bate
Using your own standards ...Do you understand? Do you have the Holy Spirit?
"But they ⌊were the ones who⌋rebelled,
and they grieved ⌊his Holy Spirit⌋,
so he ⌊became an enemy to them⌋;
he himself fought against them." Isaiah 63:10.The answer is No,No, you clearly have very little understanding and this is just one of the many blunders of your OSAS dead faith. Too many errors Robert,the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of error now is He? Anyway,thanks again for proving that the OSAS faith is a dead faith!
"Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in me, the works that I am doing he will do also, and he will do greater works* than these because I am going to the Father." John 14:12
Even so, God Bless!
The Bible teaches that when we come to Christ to be saved we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is no scripture about being unsealed.
The Bible also teaches that God places us "In Christ" Colossians 3:3.
Sooo, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and placed in Christ. Sure sounds like OSAS to me.
Of course if you have never come to Christ as a needy hell bound sinner then this does not apply to you.
John 20:22 Disciples given the Holy Spirit in salvation
Acts 1:5 Jesus tells them to expect something greater than saving presence of the Spirit, which Jesus called "baptism with the Holy Spirit"
Acts 2 Disciples are baptized with the Holy Spirit
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
September 15th, 2012, 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Okay, I should have said there is very little mention of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.
However, the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was a new manifestation of the Holy Spirit that had never taken place before. The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was to reveal the Gospel to the apostles and others. This is the point that I am trying to make.
I currently believe the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, the Spirit of God.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
The Bible teaches that when we come to Christ to be saved we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is no scripture about being unsealed.
Please give us your infallible interpretation of John 15:1-6. Is someone who is a branch of the vine...united to Jesus Christ...saved or not? And, if they are saved, how then can they be cut off, wither, die, and be thrown into the fire to be burned? Or, if you say that someone can be a branch of the vine, yet not be saved, how is that possible? Some branches of the vine are saved and some branches of the vine are NOT saved?! That’s a pretty inconsistent position to take, isn’t it ?! How can a branch of the vine, which is Jesus Christ, not be saved? Please explain that to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
TheThe Bible also teaches that God places us "In Christ" Colossians 3:3.
Put simply Colossians 3:3 means that since believers share in Christ’s death through baptism, they are dead to the traditions and practices advocated by false teachers. Colossians 2:8,16,18.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Sooo, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and placed in Christ. Sure sounds like OSAS to me.
Okay, I should have said there is very little mention of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.
You just admitted not to be infallible. Which means, the Holy Spirit can’t be guiding you. If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, and the Holy Spirit knows that He is infallible, then He would guide you into claiming that you are indeed infallible, since you are guided by the Holy Spirit. But, since you claimed not to be infallible in all things, that means the Holy Spirit can’t be guiding you, which means you cannot be infallible in any of your interpretations of Scripture. Which means, you have one big problem on your hands.So, please explain how it is you are guided by the Holy Spirit, Who is infallible, yet you are not yourself infallible? Does the Holy Spirit sometimes lead you into error? Or, does He guide you sometimes, but not other times? If so, how do you know when He’s guiding you and when He’s not?
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dona Bate
You just admitted not to be infallible. Which means, the Holy Spirit can’t be guiding you. If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, and the Holy Spirit knows that He is infallible, then He would guide you into claiming that you are indeed infallible, since you are guided by the Holy Spirit. But, since you claimed not to be infallible in all things, that means the Holy Spirit can’t be guiding you, which means you cannot be infallible in any of your interpretations of Scripture. Which means, you have one big problem on your hands.So, please explain how it is you are guided by the Holy Spirit, Who is infallible, yet you are not yourself infallible? Does the Holy Spirit sometimes lead you into error? Or, does He guide you sometimes, but not other times? If so, how do you know when He’s guiding you and when He’s not?
I never claimed to be infallible. Are you kidding?
I am a sinner saved by the goodness of God. No fallibility.
Your pope is not infallible either. He is the worst kind of a sinner a religious one that is a hypocrite.
I side with the apostle Paul who claimed to be "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.
The Holy Spirit does not do a perfect work through the believer, Christians make mistakes. Your beloved Peter made a big one, Galatians 2:11, 12, 13.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dona Bate
Please give us your infallible interpretation of John 15:1-6. Is someone who is a branch of the vine...united to Jesus Christ...saved or not? And, if they are saved, how then can they be cut off, wither, die, and be thrown into the fire to be burned? Or, if you say that someone can be a branch of the vine, yet not be saved, how is that possible? Some branches of the vine are saved and some branches of the vine are NOT saved?! That’s a pretty inconsistent position to take, isn’t it ?! How can a branch of the vine, which is Jesus Christ, not be saved? Please explain that to us.
Put simply Colossians 3:3 means that since believers share in Christ’s death through baptism, they are dead to the traditions and practices advocated by false teachers. Colossians 2:8,16,18.
Sorry Robert, again there is NO OSAS there!
There are a lot of things that you do not understand about the Bible, this is why you probably became a Catholic.
The natural person does not understand the scriptures, 1 Corinthians 2:14.
You are not a Christian. A Christian is one that has abandoned their own righteousness and is trusting in the righteousness of Christ for their salvation, Romans 3:26. They have entered into His rest, Hebrews 4:10.
I will explain John 15:1-6, but I doubt very much that you will understand it. There are two types of Christians, real ones and counterfeits. Sometimes they are very hard to tell which is which. The real Christians abide "In Christ" The counterfeits abide in their religion, in your case it is Catholicism. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring forth fruit. If there is no fruit there is no Holy Spirit and it is a counterfeit that will be removed and cast into the fire.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonW
John 20:22 Disciples given the Holy Spirit in salvation
Acts 1:5 Jesus tells them to expect something greater than saving presence of the Spirit, which Jesus called "baptism with the Holy Spirit"
Acts 2 Disciples are baptized with the Holy Spirit
The apostles had no idea of what Christ had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost. This new manifestation of the Holy Spirit revealed the Gospel to them. It is the preaching of the Gospel that brings the Holy Spirit.
There is no mention of a "Holy" Spirit in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament it is "The Spirit of the Lord" or "The Spirit of God"
Jesus told them that the Holy Spirit would come, John 14:16, 17, 18. Jesus refered to the Holy Spirit as the comforter. Here are some of the things that the Holy Spirit does.
1. Reveals the truth, John 14:17.
3. Teachs all things, John 14: 26.
4. Testifies of Christ, John 15:26.
5. He does not speak of himself, John 16:13.
6. He glorifies Christ, John 16:14.
7. He reveals the Gospel, John 16:14.
You forgot who reveals Himself to those who keep His commandments. You see the son of man is the truth which you know is the word of God so if you do not keep His commandments as he did His Fathers commandments then He is not going to reveal Himself to you. Which He has not because you refuse to follow after Him. As the son of man says, "Anyone who is not willing to pick up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."
Your confusion remains because you do not believe in the name of Gods only son. You think you believe but are following Paul rather than Jesus and the true comforter.
I did not come on my own I was sent by the One who has the right to send whom you do not know. I know Him because I come from Him. He sent me.
I do nothing on my own, I only say what the Lord has taught me for the One who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him.
It is written in the prophets:
"Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die.
And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just, giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live."
"Let the righteous rejoice in the Lord and take refuge in Him, let all the upright of heart glorify Him."
Those are not my words, they come from the Lord who sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own. Anyone who chooses to do His will shall know about this teaching, namely, whether it comes form God or I am merely speaking on my own.
The man who wants to come to me will hear my words and use them. He is like a wise man who builds his house on rock. As scripture has it "The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life."
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princely
You forgot who reveals Himself to those who keep His commandments. You see the son of man is the truth which you know is the word of God so if you do not keep His commandments as he did His Fathers commandments then He is not going to reveal Himself to you. Which He has not because you refuse to follow after Him. As the son of man says, "Anyone who is not willing to pick up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."
Your confusion remains because you do not believe in the name of Gods only son. You think you believe but are following Paul rather than Jesus and the true comforter.
I did not come on my own I was sent by the One who has the right to send whom you do not know. I know Him because I come from Him. He sent me.
I do nothing on my own, I only say what the Lord has taught me for the One who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him.
It is written in the prophets:
"Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die.
And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just, giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live."
"Let the righteous rejoice in the Lord and take refuge in Him, let all the upright of heart glorify Him."
Those are not my words, they come from the Lord who sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own. Anyone who chooses to do His will shall know about this teaching, namely, whether it comes form God or I am merely speaking on my own.
The man who wants to come to me will hear my words and use them. He is like a wise man who builds his house on rock. As scripture has it "The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life."
The words I spoke to you are spirit and life.
Sorry, I am not going to respond to your post. You need to get help.
John 20:22 Disciples given the Holy Spirit in salvation
Acts 1:5 Jesus tells them to expect something greater than saving presence of the Spirit, which Jesus called "baptism with the Holy Spirit"
Acts 2 Disciples are baptized with the Holy Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The apostles had no idea of what Christ had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost. This new manifestation of the Holy Spirit revealed the Gospel to them. It is the preaching of the Gospel that brings the Holy Spirit.
Mistaken again, Mr. Pate. In Acts 1:8 Jesus told them, "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Jesus didn't say they would receive knowledge or understanding. They needed power. Just being doctrinally correct is not sufficient. Jesus said the signs of the Kingdom of God are "The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them."
He wasn't sending them out to be witnesses in all the world without the same power that He had when the Father sent Him into the world. We are adopted as sons to do the work of His Son.
Linear Mode
