Theology Club: What determines the Omniscience of God
Open View TheologyThe Open View teaches that God can change the future. He interacts with the flow of history and changes the outcome of the future as it unfolds by His decisions and actions.
This forum is dedicated to the discussion of openness theology.
Is God totally omniscient or are there some things for which He does not have foreknowledge. If so, what?
God foreknows everything perfectly. If possibilities are real, God foreknows them as possibilities. Although God foreknows every choice I could possibly make--even my final choice--He doesn't know my final choice as fact until after the fact. He only foreknows my final choice as a possibility. However, since God foreknows all the choices I could possibly make, He is perfectly prepared for my actual choice to the same degree He would have been prepared for it had He foreknown my actual choice as fact.
Exhaustive definite foreknowledge of future free will contingencies is not possible if libertarian free will is true (and it is).
So, God knows reality as it is correctly distinguishing possible, probable, actual/certain.
The other related issue is whether God experience eternal now timelessness or an endless duration of time. I would suggest the latter is true confirming that the future is not there yet to be know exhaustively as a certainty in relation to free will choices.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Exhaustive definite foreknowledge of future free will contingencies is not possible if libertarian free will is true (and it is).
So, God knows reality as it is correctly distinguishing possible, probable, actual/certain.
The other related issue is whether God experience eternal now timelessness or an endless duration of time. I would suggest the latter is true confirming that the future is not there yet to be know exhaustively as a certainty in relation to free will choices.
So you're saying that God does not know the choices that we will make?
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
So you're saying that God does not know the choices that we will make?
He knows them when they are made as a certainty. Before this, they are possible/probable. I do not believe in exhaustive definite foreknowledge from eternity past nor Molinistic 'middle knowledge'/counterfactuals of freedom that would also lead to EDF. Determinism would make FK possible, but the choices would not be free.
God knows the past/present perfectly and the future at least as partially open/unsettled.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
I don't know how godrulz will answer, but the OV believes that God does know the choices we will make. However, He doesn't know them as fact.
Not all Open Theists agree that God knows all possible choices. You seem to be contradicting yourself. He either knows future choices as fact or there is an element of uncertainty. God does not know the future choices we will make in every detail. When He does know them, they will be known as settled facts. Predictability is still not certainty.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Is God totally omniscient or are there some things for which He does not have foreknowledge. If so, what?
What do you mean by 'knowledge'? For me, it's a house, for another a mansion, for another a residence, for another it's home, for others it's an address, for still others it's just a pile of bricks and mortar. For one, it's a death, for another a tragedy, for another an accident, for another a statistic, for another a problem, for another a God-send, for another a biological process. Who's right? I don't see how we can make big assertions about what God knows without first getting a realistic picture of what knowledge is in the first place.
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
October 6th, 2012, 06:57 PM
God foreknew His people Israel, whom He has not cast away. Romans 11:2 (KJV). We know this at least, as revealed from scripture.
I believe the question is what does God not know, in terms of knowledge of the future. In the OP, the word "omniscience" is used, with an identification of the word "foreknew" to be involved in the discussion.
I have answered with what I know God foreknew. In the KJV, the word "foreknew" does not elsewhere appear.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
What do you mean by 'knowledge'? For me, it's a house, for another a mansion, for another a residence, for another it's home, for others it's an address, for still others it's just a pile of bricks and mortar. For one, it's a death, for another a tragedy, for another an accident, for another a statistic, for another a problem, for another a God-send, for another a biological process. Who's right? I don't see how we can make big assertions about what God knows without first getting a realistic picture of what knowledge is in the first place.
I guess the easiest way to say it would be, does God know all things.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
October 6th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven
I guess the easiest way to say it would be, does God know all things.
I believe that would be omniscience, which is perhaps different from the idea and concept of foreknowledge.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
I believe that would be omniscience, which is perhaps different from the idea and concept of foreknowledge.
Omniscience is limited by what is knowable. The future is inherently not knowable in the same way the past and present are. God does have foreknowledge, but it is not exhaustive like His knowledge of the past/present is.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
October 6th, 2012, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
Omniscience is limited by what is knowable. The future is inherently not knowable in the same way the past and present are. God does have foreknowledge, but it is not exhaustive like His knowledge of the past/present is.
I submit that we should consider the Biblical usage of the word "foreknew", which is different, but might inform our "Theological" view.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
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