Slogan/motto:
“Theist and atheist: The fight between them is as to whether God shall be called God or shall have some other name” S.B.
Reputation:
"Therefore, Abortion Must Remain Legal" -
January 27th, 2013, 01:24 PM
What are your rationalizations? How do you justify legal abortion? If you're pro-choice, let me know why!
What would it take to change your mind?
God is not discoverable or demonstrable by purely scientific means, unfortunately for the scientifically minded. But that really proves nothing. It simply means that the wrong instruments are being used for the job. ~John Bertram Phillips
Slogan/motto:
Success is a journey, not a destination. So stop running.
Reputation:
January 27th, 2013, 03:41 PM
Are there any pro-choice TOLers that wouldn't argue against the fetus being a "person" but that is still pro-choice because the woman should be able to do what she wants with her own body?
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
January 27th, 2013, 04:01 PM
I'm certainly not blanket "pro-choice", however "life begins at conception" is untenable as well. It's almost impossible to enforce very early term abortions and many forms of contraception would be illegal if a so called "Life Amendment" were passed.
I think a fetus is a person, or at least close enough to be protected at a certain point after conception. I'm not entirely sure when that is, but somewhere between a heartbeat and quickening might be good places to draw the line. I do not think a fertilized egg or a ball of undifferentiated cells is a person.
I do think abortion should, at the very least, be illegal after fetal viability with exceptions for the life of the mother and *severe* fetal defects. I could see more restrictions being placed, but a blanket life amendment type law wouldn't be supported by much of the population at all.
I am also interested in addressing unplanned pregnancy with greater access to birth control as well as better social support for women who choose to have their children. It's these latter two that many right wingers object to, which makes me think instead of being pro-life, they are simply "pro-birth". once the kid is born it's up to the parents to take care of the child. "Government provided social services just reward bad behavior!" they say. Unfortunately the lack of them punishes the very children they insist must be born.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
The actual history of abortion is that even when illegal it was still done extensively but often in unsanitary conditions. I am against abortions but I am even more against making abortion illegal. Oz asks what would change my mind. If our society would put in place protections for women during and after the pregnancy yet do so in a way that did not make it appealing as a way of life (welfare abuse). I seriously doubt that can be done. Especially since it would also require provisions for the children who certainly do not deserve to be born into poverty and a miserable existence. These are tough equations and our leaders seem more inclined to spent trillions on munitions to blow holes in deserts and drones to execute infidels. Are our priorities not a bit off kilter?
But Personhood USA would have no reason to bias such an article . . .
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
But Personhood USA would have no reason to bias such an article . . .
Josh Craddock, the author, is a young man full of integrity, as are the rest of the members of the organization. And Josh also cited, and linked to, his sources for anyone wanting to check his facts.
But you wouldn't want to do something honest like that, would you?
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
January 27th, 2013, 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Josh Craddock, the author, is a young man full of integrity, as are the rest of the members of the organization. And Josh also cited, and linked to, his sources for anyone wanting to check his facts.
But you wouldn't want to do something honest like that, would you?
Problem is "personhood" groups tend to want to eliminate many common forms of contraception, removing one of the ways out of abortion.
In any case I'll check the rest of his citations in detail when I get time.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
The article makes a big deal of Ireland's low maternal mortality. Ireland does have a very restrictive abortion law, but the UK is a short ferry ride away. Any woman who wants an abortion can go to Liverpool or Cardiff and have a safe, professional abortion in a clean hospital for as little as 400 GBP. Ireland outsources its abortion demand, and so avoids developing a backstreet industry.
The article makes a big deal of Ireland's low maternal mortality. Ireland does have a very restrictive abortion law, but the UK is a short ferry ride away. Any woman who wants an abortion can go to Liverpool or Cardiff and have a safe, professional abortion in a clean hospital for as little as 400 GBP. Ireland outsources its abortion demand, and so avoids developing a backstreet industry.
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
January 28th, 2013, 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Sources?
I'm thinking that him being from the UK makes him knowledgeable about that sort of thing. I could be wrong of course, but I also found this.
But, with approximately 4,000 women from the republic and 1,000 from the north traveling to Britain each year for abortions, the Irish electorate is increasingly calling for clarification of abortion legislation.
Considering the population of the entire Island of Ireland is only about 6 million, that's a fairly high number of women leaving for abortion.
It's somewhat obvious that when you have two nations very close in proximity with very different abortion policies, outsourcing is what will happen.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
I'm thinking that him being from the UK makes him knowledgeable about that sort of thing. I could be wrong of course, but I also found this.
But, with approximately 4,000 women from the republic and 1,000 from the north traveling to Britain each year for abortions, the Irish electorate is increasingly calling for clarification of abortion legislation.
Considering the population of the entire Island of Ireland is only about 6 million, that's a fairly high number of women leaving for abortion.
It's somewhat obvious that when you have two nations very close in proximity with very different abortion policies, outsourcing is what will happen.
5,000 out of 6 million? I'm not buying it. I suspect more exaggeration; and I don't mean simple hyperbole.
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