ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
Infused Righteousness Verses Imputed Righteousness -
February 16th, 2013, 09:01 AM
Infused: 1. To instill or inculate as principles. 2. To inspire; imbue with. 3. To pour in.
Imputed: 1. To attribute to a person; charge. 2. To consider as the cause or source of; ascribe.
Catholics believe that by attending the Catholic church, going to mass, and doing other religious things they will become infused with the righteousness of Christ. When accused of being infused by their works they will say that works have nothing to do with it. It they are not infused by works (what they do) then how does it happen? Any religious thing that we do is a work.
Council of Trent: Canon #1. If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.
And how does the Catholic obtain this "Divine Grace"? He obtains it by doing something, (works) It doesn't just come to him out of the sky. He must to do something or become something (works.) There is nothing in the Bible about God imparting "Divine Grace" so that the Catholic can then be infused with the righteousness of Christ. What the Bible does say is that all men are sinners, Romans 3:23. The apostle Paul refered to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Nothing about being infused with the righteousness of Christ. This was something that Paul was hoping for, Romans 8:23, 24, 25. Not something that he already had obtained.
The difference between Christianty and Catholicism Is that the Christian sees his salvation as being totally and completely outside of himself in the work and person of Jesus Christ. All that Jesus Christ is and all that he has done is his by faith alone. His justification is in the imputed righteousness of Christ, Romans 3:26.
The Catholic looks to himself for salvation. His righteousness is in what he does and in what he has become. It is not by faith alone, it is by faith plus works, Council of Trent Canon #9 "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning nothing else is required in order to obtain the grace of justification, let him be anathema."
It is either by faith or it is by works. Imputed righteousness is that which is imputed to the believer not because of his merit or his doing, but soley on the merit and doing of Jesus Christ. Imputed righteousness is not something that is infused into the believer, it is a righteousness that is to the belivers account. He doesn't have it yet. It is like someone deposits money into your bank account but puts a stipulation on it. The stipulation would be that it is not yours until you are changed. Paul said, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised INCORRUPTABLE and we shall be changed," 1 Corinthians 1:52. It is then that we will receive the imputed righteousness of Christ.
Actually, it's both. Thus, the above is merely a False Dilemma (False Either/Or) Fallacy on Pate's part.
On the historic Christian doctrine of justification, see this.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Actually, it's both. Thus, the above is merely a False Dilemma (False Either/Or) Fallacy on Pate's part.
On the historic Christian doctrine of justification, see this.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
The article that you recommended is 18 pages long.
The Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness and the Christian doctrine of imputed righteousness is as about as different as white is from black. There are no similarities what so ever.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The article that you recommended is 18 pages long.
Eighteen whole pages?! Better get started...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Eighteen whole pages?! Better get started...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
This is the problem with your Catholic religion.
It is long, complicated and confusing.
Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, "But I fear, lest by any means' as the serpent beguild Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted by Catholicism from the simplicity that is in Christ," 2 Corinthians 11:3.
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Infused: 1. To instill or inculate as principles. 2. To inspire; imbue with. 3. To pour in.
Imputed: 1. To attribute to a person; charge. 2. To consider as the cause or source of; ascribe.
Catholics believe that by attending the Catholic church, going to mass, and doing other religious things they will become infused with the righteousness of Christ. rist.
they will
and you can't prove otherwise
"Whatever you do [do not do] to the least of My brethren, you do [do not do] to [for] Me" - Mt 25:31
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
This is the problem with your Catholic religion.
It is long, complicated and confusing.
Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, "But I fear, lest by any means' as the serpent beguild Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted by Catholicism from the simplicity that is in Christ," 2 Corinthians 11:3.
we have the Real (tangible) Presence of Jesus Christ himself
you don't
that's sad
(no sarcasm)
"Whatever you do [do not do] to the least of My brethren, you do [do not do] to [for] Me" - Mt 25:31
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
February 16th, 2013, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
This is the problem with your Catholic religion. It is long, complicated and confusing.
Eighteen pages is "long, complicated, and confusing"? You must not do very well with the Bible, eh? Anyway, your transparent excuse---not to mention your intellectual and spiritual laziness---is noted.
Quote:
Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, "But I fear, lest by any means' as the serpent beguild Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted by Catholicism from the simplicity that is in Christ," 2 Corinthians 11:3.
Great. Then let's print John 3:16 on a little card, and throw the rest of the Bible in the trash. After all, the Bible has no purpose other than to record "the gospel message," right?
Or---OR...maybe you just have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, I'm going with that.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
If Catholics could become infused with the righteousness of Christ they would be superior to all other religions.
It appears that there are more perverted sinners in the Catholic church than all of the other religions put together.
$3 billion paid to victims of sexual abuse.
How many $??? billions do you think have been paid out to the victims of the mostly hidden sexual abuse scandals within your own Protestantism religion and all other religions?
Are there more perverted sinners within Protestantism than all of the other religions put together? When your own Protestantism and all other religions are open and honest and as accountable as the Catholic Church is about the extent of their problems then you may cast the first stone!? John 8:7
Infused: 1. To instill or inculate as principles. 2. To inspire; imbue with. 3. To pour in.
Imputed: 1. To attribute to a person; charge. 2. To consider as the cause or source of; ascribe.
Catholics believe that by attending the Catholic church, going to mass, and doing other religious things they will become infused with the righteousness of Christ. When accused of being infused by their works they will say that works have nothing to do with it. It they are not infused by works (what they do) then how does it happen? Any religious thing that we do is a work.
Council of Trent: Canon #1. If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.
And how does the Catholic obtain this "Divine Grace"? He obtains it by doing something, (works) It doesn't just come to him out of the sky. He must to do something or become something (works.) There is nothing in the Bible about God imparting "Divine Grace" so that the Catholic can then be infused with the righteousness of Christ. What the Bible does say is that all men are sinners, Romans 3:23. The apostle Paul refered to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Nothing about being infused with the righteousness of Christ. This was something that Paul was hoping for, Romans 8:23, 24, 25. Not something that he already had obtained.
The difference between Christianty and Catholicism Is that the Christian sees his salvation as being totally and completely outside of himself in the work and person of Jesus Christ. All that Jesus Christ is and all that he has done is his by faith alone. His justification is in the imputed righteousness of Christ, Romans 3:26.
The Catholic looks to himself for salvation. His righteousness is in what he does and in what he has become. It is not by faith alone, it is by faith plus works, Council of Trent Canon #9 "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning nothing else is required in order to obtain the grace of justification, let him be anathema."
It is either by faith or it is by works. Imputed righteousness is that which is imputed to the believer not because of his merit or his doing, but soley on the merit and doing of Jesus Christ. Imputed righteousness is not something that is infused into the believer, it is a righteousness that is to the belivers account. He doesn't have it yet. It is like someone deposits money into your bank account but puts a stipulation on it. The stipulation would be that it is not yours until you are changed. Paul said, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised INCORRUPTABLE and we shall be changed," 1 Corinthians 1:52. It is then that we will receive the imputed righteousness of Christ.
According to your imputed righteousness theory ... Nobody need be a Christian to benefit from His Sacrifice!? Satan and the Anti Christ will also benefit from His Sacrifice!? There was no need for Christ wasting 3 years teaching for nothing!?
February 16th, 2013, 09:55 AM
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