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Reload this Page Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?
MidActs Dispensationalism Acts 9 (or MidActs) Dispensationalism acknowledges the scriptural presentation of the dispensation of grace having begun with, not before, Paul; and its adherents accept the admonishment of Jesus Christ Himself that members of the Body of Christ follow Paul as he followed Christ.

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Question Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right? - February 28th, 2013, 10:33 PM

I have listened to Bob Enyart's The Plot series & I am reading the book.
He settles a bunch of doctrinal debates like:

are believers under the law?
is baptism necessary ?
does salvation by faith require works ?
can believers lose their salvation ?
must believers keep the sabbath ?
is the rapture before the tribulation ?
is there a rapture ?

the post I have read against Mid Acts Disp have not even dented this doctrine nor can they settle these debates once and for all like The Plot has for me.
I keep waiting for some one to prove it wrong but mostly
I get the fact that people don't understand "The Plot"

"The Plot" \ Mid Acts Disp makes exegesis simple.

the question is :

can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?



   
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February 28th, 2013, 11:02 PM

I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.






   
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March 1st, 2013, 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?
I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.

And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right. So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.





Jesus saves completely.

Titus 1:10-11

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.climatedepot.com/
   
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March 1st, 2013, 07:41 AM

way2go-
I certainly think Bob is right.

There's also another book, entitled: Modern Church: Where Tradition Trumps Truth that I think you would enjoy. It was written by Randy Arendell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.
You should get it. I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.

And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right. So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.
This is true.





   
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March 1st, 2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.
Paul had his accusers too

Rom3:7 ... why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.


Quote:
And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right.
likes this I guess
Quote:
So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.
well people in here can tell you how the JW's are wrong and back it up with scripture
you would think the #1 poster or anybody could do the same against Mid Acts Disp if it were not the truth.



   
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March 1st, 2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
I have listened to Bob Enyart's The Plot series & I am reading the book.
He settles a bunch of doctrinal debates like:

are believers under the law?
is baptism necessary ?
does salvation by faith require works ?
can believers lose their salvation ?
must believers keep the sabbath ?
is the rapture before the tribulation ?
is there a rapture ?

the post I have read against Mid Acts Disp have not even dented this doctrine nor can they settle these debates once and for all like The Plot has for me.
I keep waiting for some one to prove it wrong but mostly
I get the fact that people don't understand "The Plot"

"The Plot" \ Mid Acts Disp makes exegesis simple.

the question is :

can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?
I also really like "The Plot" by Bob.

Hilston (a poster here) did a critique on it, but I don't recall him pointing out any big problems that really grabbed me. There is a link to it in his signature in his posts on TOL.

EDIT: link found http://www.biblestudiesonline.info/T...al/theplot.htm
Would be interesting for him to chime in here.

Hilston is also a mid-Acts-dispie btw, (I think he would agree with Bob in way more cases than not) and I wish he would write a book about it, he is brilliant on it.





Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
   
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March 1st, 2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
you would think the #1 poster or anybody could do the same against Mid Acts Disp if it were not the truth.
He can't condense 30 years of commentary study into a few posts. Google may also help.





Jesus saves completely.

Titus 1:10-11

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.climatedepot.com/
   
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March 1st, 2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquero45 View Post
EDIT: link found http://www.biblestudiesonline.info/T...al/theplot.htm
Would be interesting for him to chime in here.

Hilston is also a mid-Acts-dispie btw, (I think he would agree with Bob in way more cases than not) and I wish he would write a book about it, he is brilliant on it.
Here's a link: http://www.oocities.org/mikem2u/theplot.html



   
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March 1st, 2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
Who wrote that? I'd like to hear or see them talk to Bob on the verses, and Bob doesn't say "grace came only through Paul". The guy who wrote it comes off as someone who has a bone to pick beyond just the topic, he is too insulting.





Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
   
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March 1st, 2013, 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
well people in here can tell you how the JW's are wrong and back it up with scripture
you would think the #1 poster or anybody could do the same against Mid Acts Disp if it were not the truth.
Here are some other points of view:

The Church is both the body and the bride of Christ

Dispensationalism vs. HYPER-Dispensationalism

Errors of MAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquero45 View Post
Who wrote that?
I don't know. I just found the link from doing a search.



   
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March 1st, 2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.
key
circumcised= Jew under the law
uncircumcised= body of Christ (edited)

Mid Acts Disp would look at who wrote the book, Paul or one of the twelve.

next

who is it written to, Jews or gentiles

example : the rapture

here we have prophecy of jews in the kingdom going through the tribulation no rapture here

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

tribulation expected immediately, still no mention of the rapture

Mat 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Israel cut off , plan A. stopped plan B. enacted

Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.

Israel's religious leaders ,Paul and the Romans did such a good job at persecuting the kingdom church,

Israel was cut off.

Act_8:3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison

then Paul was saved Act_9:4-11

body of Christ started by Paul.
the twelve do not use the term "body of Christ"

Co_12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

the twelve to the remaining kingdom & Paul to the gentiles

Gal_2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised

Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,


the gospels preach taken away in judgement

Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.


paul preaches the rapture

1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

tried to keep this short .
this is so little of what "The Plot" has to say
about the rapture
I hope this gives you an idea of what the book is like. tons of detail




Last edited by way 2 go; March 1st, 2013 at 10:43 PM..
   
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March 1st, 2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
key
body=uncircumcised
kingdom=circumcised
If the kingdom refers to the circumcised, then why did Jesus say to the circumcised that the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation who would bring forth its fruits (Matthew 21:43)?

Also, why does Paul refer to the "kingdom" some 14 times in his epistles to the Gentiles?



   
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March 1st, 2013, 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
If the kingdom refers to the circumcised, then why did Jesus say to the circumcised that the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation who would bring forth its fruits (Matthew 21:43)?

Also, why does Paul refer to the "kingdom" some 14 times in his epistles to the Gentiles?
sorry kingdom is my explanation not Mr Enyart
but in light of your point
circumcised= Jew under the law
uncircumcised= body of Christ



   
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March 1st, 2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquero45 View Post
Who wrote that? I'd like to hear or see them talk to Bob on the verses, and Bob doesn't say "grace came only through Paul". The guy who wrote it comes off as someone who has a bone to pick beyond just the topic, he is too insulting.
I agree

bottom of page

" Jesus himself preached grace"

Jesus never said the word grace



   
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March 1st, 2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquero45 View Post
Who wrote that? I'd like to hear or see them talk to Bob on the verses, and Bob doesn't say "grace came only through Paul". The guy who wrote it comes off as someone who has a bone to pick beyond just the topic, he is too insulting.
also he writes
Quote:
" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

These are the words of Jesus, and in these words he's teaching salvation through FAITH (believing); he's not teaching works!"



Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."



   
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