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Hebrew language majestic plural - April 26th, 2013, 11:47 PM

Salvation is of the Jews JN 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

so we can benefit from insights into the Jewish knowledge of God, especially when scripture that Jesus promoted was written in their language.

Unlike English, the Hebrew language has different plurals: majestic or numerical.

Numerical plurals are self-explanatory regarding numerically plural nouns, while majestic plurals refer to multiplied majesty/greatness/absoluteness of numerically singular nouns.

To distinguish whether a noun with a plural suffix is numerically or majestically plural, Hebrew language ensures the noun is associated with a clarifying adjective and verb ie numerical plurals MUST be associated with numerically plural verbs and adjectives while majestic plurals are associated with singular verbs and adjectives.

eg 'behemoth' is a plural noun at Job 40:15 yet refers to an extremely mighty individual creature as clarified by singular adjectives and verbs associated with him ... so this individual creature/noun is referred to in the majestic plural because of the magnitude of his attributes.
eg the individual Moses was referred to as a plural noun when God conferred great majesty on him at Exodus 7:1, but singularity was clarified by the adjectives and verbs associated with him.

Behemoth was an individual creature despite the Hebrew language using the majestic plural term for it.
Moses was an individual despite the Hebrew majestic plural being used for him.

In the Hebrew language, God frequently attracts the use of the majestic plural Hebrew term because of the magnitude and greatness and majesty associated with God, but the fact that God is NOT plural is clarified by verbs and adjectives associated with God eg the verb 'created' referring to multiple-majesty God, is the singular form rather than plural ie He created rather than they created.

God is not the only example of Hebrew language majestic-plural individuals in scripture, so the Hebrew language majestic plural should not be errantly promoted as indicating multiplicity in non-Hebrew languages.



   
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April 26th, 2013, 11:59 PM

Wow I didn't know any of that. Is it important?



   
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April 27th, 2013, 12:03 AM

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Wow I didn't know any of that. Is it important?
Yes if you wish to better know the One true non-plural God Who Jewish Jesus knew and promoted.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 12:16 AM

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Yes if you wish to better know the One true non-plural God Who Jewish Jesus knew and promoted.
OK, but I have never needed a book for that.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 12:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
OK, but I have never needed a book for that.
Oh dear Eeset, we differ in that coz like many facts, I had to rely on a book to learn that Jesus even existed and I had to rely on a book to know how he behaved and what words came directly from his mouth according to 1st hand witnesses ... no way I could have imagined or known any of this without reading it. I'm so grateful for written scriptural accounts. I'm also grateful for books that enable me to better understand things that are important to me.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 12:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
Oh dear Eeset, we differ in that coz like many facts, I had to rely on a book to learn that Jesus even existed and I had to rely on a book to know how he behaved and what words came directly from his mouth according to 1st hand witnesses ... no way I could have imagined or known any of this without reading it. I'm so grateful for written scriptural accounts. I'm also grateful for books that enable me to better understand things that are important to me.
Praise God that you learned to read. You realize, of course, that most of humanity could not read until very recently. And I'm sure you know that Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses and many others never had a book. Don't you find it amazing that few of any importance in the history from Adam to David had a book? Jonah, Job, Lot, Ruth and so on had no book.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 01:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
Praise God that you learned to read. You realize, of course, that most of humanity could not read until very recently. And I'm sure you know that Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses and many others never had a book. Don't you find it amazing that few of any importance in the history from Adam to David had a book? Jonah, Job, Lot, Ruth and so on had no book.
Amen thanking God for enabling reading. What a mercy.

Yes I know most of humanity couldn't read, but most of the earliest believers you mentioned were blessed with personal or visitation agents from God eg Adam spoke with God personally and Abraham had Godly visiting agents etc. God spoke with Noah personally and gave him instructions. Moses was given reading material on stone from God Himself to share with the nation and then Moses acted as God's secretary and wrote other things that God wanted people to know. Reading became a very important skill that God enabled. People went astray until they found the books that Moses wrote 2 Kings 22. We need the life-giving Words from God.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 08:33 AM

the words get in the way?

it often easier to conceptualize something than it is to record and convey it accurately to others.

the beauty of the written word is that it can have layers of subtle meanings that will reveal themselves at different points in peoples lives, whereas if you hear it in oral tradition unless it resides in the heart it will only take on the single meaning of that moment.

the Jews of these eras certainly had their hands full finding adjectives in their own Semitic language to accurately describe the sheer unmeasurable depth and width of Gods majesty and power.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
Salvation is of the Jews JN 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

so we can benefit from insights into the Jewish knowledge of God, especially when scripture that Jesus promoted was written in their language.

Unlike English, the Hebrew language has different plurals: majestic or numerical.

Numerical plurals are self-explanatory regarding numerically plural nouns, while majestic plurals refer to multiplied majesty/greatness/absoluteness of numerically singular nouns.

To distinguish whether a noun with a plural suffix is numerically or majestically plural, Hebrew language ensures the noun is associated with a clarifying adjective and verb ie numerical plurals MUST be associated with numerically plural verbs and adjectives while majestic plurals are associated with singular verbs and adjectives.

eg 'behemoth' is a plural noun at Job 40:15 yet refers to an extremely mighty individual creature as clarified by singular adjectives and verbs associated with him ... so this individual creature/noun is referred to in the majestic plural because of the magnitude of his attributes.
eg the individual Moses was referred to as a plural noun when God conferred great majesty on him at Exodus 7:1, but singularity was clarified by the adjectives and verbs associated with him.

Behemoth was an individual creature despite the Hebrew language using the majestic plural term for it.
Moses was an individual despite the Hebrew majestic plural being used for him.

In the Hebrew language, God frequently attracts the use of the majestic plural Hebrew term because of the magnitude and greatness and majesty associated with God, but the fact that God is NOT plural is clarified by verbs and adjectives associated with God eg the verb 'created' referring to multiple-majesty God, is the singular form rather than plural ie He created rather than they created.

God is not the only example of Hebrew language majestic-plural individuals in scripture, so the Hebrew language majestic plural should not be errantly promoted as indicating multiplicity in non-Hebrew languages.

‘Plural of Majesty’ never existed anywhere in the Ancient Near East (ANE), including Biblical Hebrew.

Thus, when plurals are attached to the Creator in scripture, we must acknowledge the fact that He is uni-plural in nature.

Unitarian Jews try their very best to cover-up this truth so that they can fit a plural entity into their version of monotheism. Hence, came the invention of 'Majestic plurals' to attempt to make sense of what they were reading.

Additionally, this was the reason for the Mosoretic Recension Text (MT) in which Unitarian Jews re-wrote their scriptures to fit with their world-view.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 11:30 AM

It depend what you value, salvation, I value most, and no different language will help with that! That is part of a WORK belief, which contradicts Christ.

If you wish to learn languages, try Latin, then you will see, picking up the Romantic languages is easy!





So, what?

believe it!
   
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April 27th, 2013, 04:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
‘Plural of Majesty’ never existed anywhere in the Ancient Near East (ANE), including Biblical Hebrew.
world-view.
The term used by the Queen "we are not amused" proves majestic plurals even sometimes exist on rare occasions in modern English.

Unlike your non-academic personal opinion, actual renowned Hebrew scholars (who even translated the Dead Sea scrolls), assure us that the Hebrew language does indeed involve majestic plurals which even other ancient Middle Eastern languages may not use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post

Thus, when plurals are attached to the Creator in scripture, we must acknowledge the fact that He is uni-plural in nature.
The behemoth also had many mighty attributes despite being a single individual creature. Magnitude of attributes does not mean the individual with those attributes is multiple.
According to your logic, there were multiple scriptural 'Moses' too and that concept would also be incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post

Unitarian Jews try their very best to cover-up this truth so that they can fit a plural entity into their version of monotheism. Hence, came the invention of 'Majestic plurals' to attempt to make sense of what they were reading.
If you truly absorbed the fact that majestic plurals are not only used regarding God, but also regarding other individuals eg behemoth, Moses etc, then you would recognise that there is no plural entity involved.
For non-Hebrew-language-experts, inventing a plural entity could be considered an attempt at making sense of what they are reading in their non-scriptural-Hebrew translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post


Additionally, this was the reason for the Mosoretic Recension Text (MT) in which Unitarian Jews re-wrote their scriptures to fit with their world-view.
The MT isn't the only text available in original scriptural Hebrew yet they are all in agreement regarding majestic plurals. Like it or not, Jesus assured us that unlike other religions, Jews know Who they worship and salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus never said this about Christianity, which modified its view of God and monotheism over time.

If you are going to promote a multi-God then you must also do the same with Moses & Behemoth & some other scriptural individuals.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 05:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
It depend what you value,
I value truth and that matters.
JN 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
JN 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

JN 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
salvation, I value most, and no different language will help with that!
Jesus made a subtle disagreement with you JN 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Since you value salvation most, you would benefit from learning from Jews, since that's where salavation stems from. They understand Hebrew scriptures and, according to Jesus, unlike other religions they truly know Who God is


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Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
That is part of a WORK belief, which contradicts Christ.
But 'belief' itself is a work, which agrees with Christ and totally discredits any anti-work religion
JN 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
JN 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post

If you wish to learn languages, try Latin, then you will see, picking up the Romantic languages is easy!
I desire to learn truth rather than romance so I'll persist in learning what God shared in scriptural Hebrew thanks



   
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April 27th, 2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
‘Plural of Majesty’ never existed anywhere in the Ancient Near East (ANE), including Biblical Hebrew.

Thus, when plurals are attached to the Creator in scripture, we must acknowledge the fact that He is uni-plural in nature.

Unitarian Jews try their very best to cover-up this truth so that they can fit a plural entity into their version of monotheism. Hence, came the invention of 'Majestic plurals' to attempt to make sense of what they were reading.

Additionally, this was the reason for the Mosoretic Recension Text (MT) in which Unitarian Jews re-wrote their scriptures to fit with their world-view.
JUST STOP!
cause you don't know any Hebrew, or any Hebrew for that matter!

"Elohim" = plural masculine form of God.

Take a word, like cat. A cat is a Khatul in Hebrew. This word is an example of one that does not differ by gender. All you do is add 'im' to the end. Khatulim is for male cats, and Khatulot is for female cats

therefore, no majestic! or, am I wrong..? Did your youth pastor lie to you again, because he didn't pay attention in youth pastor school, wherever that is........prolly expensive.



   
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April 27th, 2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkA View Post
the words get in the way?

it often easier to conceptualize something than it is to record and convey it accurately to others.

the beauty of the written word is that it can have layers of subtle meanings that will reveal themselves at different points in peoples lives, whereas if you hear it in oral tradition unless it resides in the heart it will only take on the single meaning of that moment.

the Jews of these eras certainly had their hands full finding adjectives in their own Semitic language to accurately describe the sheer unmeasurable depth and width of Gods majesty and power.
Excellent points! Thanks for sharing great insights



   
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April 27th, 2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
The term used by the Queen "we are not amused" proves majestic plurals even sometimes exist on rare occasions in modern English.
English is NOT Biblical Hebrew.



Quote:
Unlike your non-academic personal opinion, actual renowned Hebrew scholars (who even translated the Dead Sea scrolls), assure us that the Hebrew language does indeed involve majestic plurals which even other ancient Middle Eastern languages may not use.
Reference?




Quote:
The behemoth also had many mighty attributes despite being a single individual creature.
And?

Does he speak in the plural?







Quote:
If you truly absorbed the fact that majestic plurals are not only used regarding God, but also regarding other individuals eg behemoth, Moses etc, then you would recognise that there is no plural entity involved.

Moses was Trinitarian.




Quote:
For non-Hebrew-language-experts, inventing a plural entity could be considered an attempt at making sense of what they are reading in their non-scriptural-Hebrew translation.
The original Hebrew reveals a uni-plural Creator.



Quote:
The MT isn't the only text available in original scriptural Hebrew yet they are all in agreement regarding majestic plurals.
Not even close.




Quote:
Like it or not, Jesus assured us that unlike other religions, Jews know Who they worship and salvation is of the Jews.
Why did some Jews worship Jesus, while others did not?

Use your head...




Quote:
Jesus never said this about Christianity, which modified its view of God and monotheism over time.
Jesus is God and was worshiped as such by believing Jews.





Quote:
If you are going to promote a multi-God then you must also do the same with Moses & Behemoth & some other scriptural individuals.
The Trinity is ONE God.



   
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