ECT Apostasy and regathering

Sheila B

Member
I recently heard that after the great falling away, the Jewish people will be brought into the church in wholesale numbers. Then, it will be the Jews who will evangelize the gentiles again back into the church, and then the end will come.

It does seem to be what St Paul is saying...

Any ideas on this scenario?
 

Cross Reference

New member
I recently heard that after the great falling away, the Jewish people will be brought into the church in wholesale numbers. Then, it will be the Jews who will evangelize the gentiles again back into the church, and then the end will come.

It does seem to be what St Paul is saying...

Any ideas on this scenario?

Yes __don't believe it.

Question: Who/Where did you receive this opinion served up as fact? Thanks.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
I recently heard that after the great falling away, the Jewish people will be brought into the church in wholesale numbers. Then, it will be the Jews who will evangelize the gentiles again back into the church, and then the end will come.

It does seem to be what St Paul is saying...

Any ideas on this scenario?

II Thessalonians 2:3

apostasia is better translated departure, referring to the departure described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18
 

Levolor

New member
I recently heard that after the great falling away, the Jewish people will be brought into the church in wholesale numbers. Then, it will be the Jews who will evangelize the gentiles again back into the church, and then the end will come.

It does seem to be what St Paul is saying...

Any ideas on this scenario?

I believe so also.

See Romans 11:11-33
 

Sheila B

Member
Yes __don't believe it.

Question: Who/Where did you receive this opinion served up as fact? Thanks.

Radio program.

The two main scriptures he used were the broken off olive branches, and the grafting on of the wild gentile branches, then the cultivated branches funally being grafted back in.

The second was Paul's Roman letter about the Jews having a veil for now and what riches it brought the gentiles... and how when the Jews enter the church it will be even greater glory for the world than it was the first time.

I thought of the 10 gentiles who will ask one Jew to lead him to the truth.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Radio program.

The two main scriptures he used were the broken off olive branches, and the grafting on of the wild gentile branches, then the cultivated branches funally being grafted back in.

The second was Paul's Roman letter about the Jews having a veil for now and what riches it brought the gentiles... and how when the Jews enter the church it will be even greater glory for the world than it was the first time.

I thought of the 10 gentiles who will ask one Jew to lead him to the truth.

Whose was the speaker that you should put your confidence in?
 

Sheila B

Member
II Thessalonians 2:3

apostasia is better translated departure, referring to the departure described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18

the discussion was not dealing with the supposed "rapture" of the church but about the role the Jews will play at the end.
 

Sheila B

Member
Romans 11:11
"So, I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
12 "Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!"

11:17 "but if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree
18 ...do not boast... it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

2 Cor 3:14 the veil remains over them...

and Zech 8:23 is what I thought of during the broadcast
"...ten men rom the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

So, the Jews will bring the fallen away Christians back to the church and then the end will come.
 

Levolor

New member
Romans 11:11
"So, I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
12 "Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!"

11:17 "but if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree
18 ...do not boast... it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

2 Cor 3:14 the veil remains over them...

and Zech 8:23 is what I thought of during the broadcast
"...ten men rom the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

So, the Jews will bring the fallen away Christians back to the church and then the end will come.

Yes.

, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved. Romans 11:25b, 26a
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I recently heard that after the great falling away, the Jewish people will be brought into the church in wholesale numbers. Then, it will be the Jews who will evangelize the gentiles again back into the church, and then the end will come.

It does seem to be what St Paul is saying...

Any ideas on this scenario?

The 144000 of Rev.chs 14 -7-21 are the Bride of Prophets and Priests which Paul identified as being Christians, regardless of race.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Just look them up in Paul's and other's writings beginning with--

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Joh 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

And undefiled with defiling women (cults)

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.



LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hardly! They're 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, as it plainly states.

The tribes of OT Israel were forshadowments of the Israel of God of the everlasting covenant.

If it was not so then what happened to the tribe of Dan,

and what happened to the rest of these members of these tribes if they be tribes of the flesh??

The OT Israel was finished 2000 years back.

The NT Israel is the people of God of the new covenant, built on the foundation of Christ.

They are the Kings and Priests of the new creation.


1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


LA
 

Cross Reference

New member
The speaker is not what is important to me, the message in accordance with what the scriptures say is what I focused on.

Yes but, that is why I am asking who he was. There is rarely a speaker without an opinion on what he reads from scripture. Why that is is because they have to make scripture fit their ideas/agenda; the context in which they place their confidence. None escape this who are without Holy Spirit insight and relying solely upon seminary credentials or otherwise popular recognition for credibility. Baptists come easily to mind.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Yes but, that is why I am asking who he was. There is rarely a speaker without an opinion on what he reads from scripture. Why that is is because they have to make scripture fit their ideas/agenda; the context in which they place their confidence. None escape this who are without Holy Spirit insight and relying solely upon seminary credentials or otherwise popular recognition for credibility. Baptists come easily to mind.

where did you get your credentials?
 

Cross Reference

New member
where did you get your credentials?

I have nothing in a formal way I can point to except my desire to be of God in my whole heart. He blesses me with Himself as I progress in knowing His ways in that He is "the rewarder of those who diligently seek Him". That is the way the gospel of Jesus Christ was/is purposed to work in the heart of anyone who seeks Him with all their "heart, mind and soul". Why folk seek to change the procedure is beyond me __ and if the church would do its job there would have been no need for seminaries, which are no more in the 'way' than the church has proven itself to be.
 
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