Spiritual Eyes

k0de

k0de

Active member
Not everyone gets spiritual eyes. How important is to not merely read scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understand them?

Word from the master goes like this:

Luke 10: 23. Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.

The word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness.

24. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

Wow many didn't see it. I'll save the hearing part of the phrase for another thread.

Luke 11: 34. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

Matthew 13: 16. But blessed are your eyes because they see,and your ears because they hear.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

But to every theologian on TOL important words from the master.

Here it is:

Luke 24: 31. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.

32. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Questions:

Is merely reading scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understanding them. Is there any profit unless the scriptures are open from the master?

And are these scriptures only applying to the people of the kingdom of God as per MAD?

What you say?
 
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k0de

k0de

Active member
k0de said:
Not everyone gets spiritual eyes. How important is to not merely read scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understand them?

Word from the master goes like this:

Luke 10: 23. Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.

The word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness.

24. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

Wow many didn't see it. I'll save the hearing part of the phrase for another thread.

Luke 11: 34. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

Matthew 13: 16. But blessed are your eyes because they see,and your ears because they hear.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

But to every theologian on TOL important words from the master.

Here it is:

Luke 24: 31. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.

32. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Questions:

Is merely reading scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understanding them. Is there any profit unless the scriptures are open from the master?

And are these scriptures only applying to the people of the kingdom of God as per MAD?

What you say?
Click to expand...
Why so quiet on this thread? Does any want to claim that they received revelations on scriptures from Jesus?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
You are misunderstanding the MAD position.

There can be different ways that the same scripture can apply. But God is not dealing with the church which is His body in an identical manner to the nation of Israel. This is clear for anyone to see.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
k0de said:
Not everyone gets spiritual eyes. How important is to not merely read scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understand them?

Word from the master goes like this:

Luke 10: 23. Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.

The word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness.

24. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

Wow many didn't see it. I'll save the hearing part of the phrase for another thread.

Luke 11: 34. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

Matthew 13: 16. But blessed are your eyes because they see,and your ears because they hear.

Again the word blessed is a be·at·i·tude a supreme blessedness. And again I'll save hearing for another thread.

But to every theologian on TOL important words from the master.

Here it is:

Luke 24: 31. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.

32. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Questions:

Is merely reading scriptures with fleshly eyes and not understanding them. Is there any profit unless the scriptures are open from the master?

And are these scriptures only applying to the people of the kingdom of God as per MAD?

What you say?
Click to expand...

Most certainly we wish to see deeper into what scripture is saying than the words on the page.

However, the first step in becoming spiritually minded is to read the words on the page with our physical eyes.

We utilize our body and soul and spirit to work the word, the written logos of God, so that we might know the incarnate logos of God, Jesus Christ, so that we can know God who is His word, His logos, His message.

We cannot know God without the physical logos of God, the scripture being made know to us by others or by our own reading

Once we begin to understand the physical words on the pages of scripture, then we are setting the foundation to see things from a more spiritual point of view.
 
k0de

k0de

Active member
Right Divider said:
You are misunderstanding the MAD position.

There can be different ways that the same scripture can apply. But God is not dealing with the church which is His body in an identical manner to the nation of Israel. This is clear for anyone to see.
Click to expand...

I'm new to the MAD position new study for me. But it's getting better and better the more I study about it. Believe it or not. More pros than cons this far into my study. Not bad.
 
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k0de

k0de

Active member
oatmeal said:
Most certainly we wish to see deeper into what scripture is saying than the words on the page.
Click to expand...
How is that possible. With a magnifying glass?

However, the first step in becoming spiritually minded is to read the words on the page with our physical eyes.
Click to expand...
I agree.

We utilize our body and soul and spirit to work the word, the written logos of God, so that we might know the incarnate logos of God, Jesus Christ, so that we can know God who is His word, His logos, His message.

We cannot know God without the physical logos of God, the scripture being made know to us by others or by our own reading.
Click to expand...
What is logos?
 
B

bibleverse2

New member
k0de said:
Not everyone gets spiritual eyes.
Click to expand...

That brought to mind:

2 Kings 6:15 . . . when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with [physical] horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, YHWH, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And YHWH opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of [spiritual] horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

--

k0de said:
Is there any profit unless the scriptures are open from the master?
Click to expand...

No. And His opening of them includes the physical. For the resurrected Jesus said:

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
 
k0de

k0de

Active member
bibleverse2 said:
That brought to mind:

2 Kings 6:15 . . . when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with [physical] horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, YHWH, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And YHWH opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of [spiritual] horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Click to expand...
Can you imagine that scenery? I wonder if the horses where all the same color or different like the horses in revelations.

No. And His opening of them includes the physical. For the resurrected Jesus said:

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Click to expand...
Amen!
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
k0de said:
How is that possible. With a magnifying glass?


I agree.

What is logos?
Click to expand...

Are you asking to continue the discussion?

Regarding the word "logos" its Greek meaning is simply a word as in a message, it does not concern itself so much with the actual words used as much as it refers to the thought or intent behind the message.

Take the two statements regarding God's presence in our lives

a. I will never leave thee nor forsake thee

b. I will always be with you.

Same basic thought or intent but said in opposite terms, one in the negative the other in the positive.

We learn the same truth reading either statement.

Likewise with the word logos and its use in John 1

God is the word, the message intended. That is, God wants us to know him so that we can love and appreciate him, thus learn to serve him as sons of God.

He communicates himself in various ways, most notably, the written logos of God, that is, scripture and the message, the logos, in the flesh, Jesus Christ

Jesus always did the Father's will which is first given in scripture, Jesus did all the truths in the OT that applied to him, thus we see in the flesh what God's will is by God's word in action
 
B

bibleverse2

New member
k0de said:
[Re: Luke 24:39-48]

Amen!
Click to expand...

It is so good to see that you agree with Luke 24:39-48. For this will become less usual as we proceed into the future.

That is, as we approach the time of the future Antichrist, Christians need to be careful not to be deceived by the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7), and that Christians will not forever be in the flesh. For the Bible shows that on the third day after His death (Luke 24:46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), Jesus Christ was not resurrected as a disembodied spirit, but in his human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 2:17). That is why His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and why He still has the wounds of the crucifixion on His resurrection body (John 20:25-29). And Luke 24:39 did not stop being true once Jesus ascended into heaven. For He will remain forever the human mediator/high priest of Christians (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 7:24-26), in human flesh, just like they are in human flesh (Hebrews 2:17). And when He returns, He will still have the wounds of the crucifixion on His resurrection body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

Gnosticism mistakenly thinks that flesh is evil in itself, and that only pure spirit can be good. But Jesus Christ proves that flesh is not evil in itself, for He has been made flesh (John 1:1,14, Romans 1:3, Luke 24:39) and remains without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Genesis also proves that flesh is not evil in itself, but was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). Adam and Eve were flesh, for they were the progenitors of the human race alive today. And they were immortal before they fell into sin, for it was only their falling into sin which made them become mortal (Genesis 2:17). So Adam and Eve started out as immortal flesh. And so the future resurrection (if dead) or changing (if alive) of Christians into immortal flesh bodies like Jesus has (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39, Romans 8:23-25) will be God allowing them to partake of the original, immortal-flesh condition of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before their fall into sin.

Also, beware the more-general Gnostic lie that even the entire physical universe is evil in itself and that only a purely-spiritual heaven can be good. For this lie is employed by Gnosticism to wrongly revile the Creator God YHWH as an evil, tyrant, lesser god, whom Gnosticism says created the physical universe to be the foul prison house of human spirits, whom Gnosticism says by mistake fell from bliss in a purely-spiritual heaven down into the physical universe and became trapped in suffering, fleshly bodies. No doubt the future Antichrist will employ this lie as part of his utter reviling of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). But Genesis shows that our physical world was created by YHWH as something very good (Genesis 1:31).

And the Bible shows that the whole plan of Creation was not that humans, who are both flesh and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Luke 24:39), would become purely-spiritual ghosts and float forever on clouds in a purely-spiritual heaven with God, but that God would become both flesh and spirit like man (John 1:1,14), and that God would ultimately come down from heaven to live with man on a future, New Earth (Revelation 21:1-4), as in a new surface for the earth, just as God had walked on the earth in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:8). Also, on the New Earth, Christians will be allowed to eat from the literal tree of life (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2,14), just as Adam and Eve had not been forbidden to eat from it in their unfallen state (Genesis 2:9,16-17). So, with regard to Christians, God will completely undo the effect of the fall of Adam and Eve. Christians will be able to live in an earthly, physical paradise forever with God (Revelation 2:7), just as Adam and Eve and their descendants might have done had not Adam and Eve fallen into sin.

So beware the Gnostic lie. Beware the Antichrist.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
oatmeal said:
Are you asking to continue the discussion?

Regarding the word "logos" its Greek meaning is simply a word as in a message, it does not concern itself so much with the actual words used as much as it refers to the thought or intent behind the message.

Take the two statements regarding God's presence in our lives

a. I will never leave thee nor forsake thee

b. I will always be with you.

Same basic thought or intent but said in opposite terms, one in the negative the other in the positive.

We learn the same truth reading either statement.

Likewise with the word logos and its use in John 1

God is the word, the message intended. That is, God wants us to know him so that we can love and appreciate him, thus learn to serve him as sons of God.

He communicates himself in various ways, most notably, the written logos of God, that is, scripture and the message, the logos, in the flesh, Jesus Christ

Jesus always did the Father's will which is first given in scripture, Jesus did all the truths in the OT that applied to him, thus we see in the flesh what God's will is by God's word in action
Click to expand...

This brings up an interesting insight.

Jesus showed the written word of God and God's heart by living the logos, the message of God which is as much God as God is..

What happens when we live the written word by being obedient to God's written word, His written logos and the message, the logos in the flesh?

Do we not, in part, become an example of the logos in the flesh?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
oatmeal said:
This brings up an interesting insight.

Jesus showed the written word of God and God's heart by living the logos, the message of God which is as much God as God is..

What happens when we live the written word by being obedient to God's written word, His written logos and the message, the logos in the flesh?

Do we not, in part, become an example of the logos in the flesh?
Click to expand...
What a demonstration of pride!
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
What a demonstration of pride!
Click to expand...

Like all Christians I am a son of God.

If being a doer of the word instead of a hearer only is prideful, then may I do the word of God with the same loving obedience to God as Jesus Christ showed and did.
 
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