ECT The historical false teaching about the sins of a believer

ZacharyB

Active member
We have a deadly enemy who really hates us … he wants us to be with him in hell.
To overcome him we have: the word of God, the Holy Spirit, and our authority over him.
This is how the NT describes our enemy:
“the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
“the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19)
“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44)
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)


One of Satan’s masterpieces of deception is this widespread doctrine:
“A new believer in Christ has all of his sins washed away: past, present, and future!”
This thread will prove that this teaching is a very dangerous false doctrine.

“... call His name Jesus (Savior), for He will save His people from their sins.” (Matthew 1:21)
Okay great, but how and when? When one initially receives the Holy Spirit?
Or in some other way? Or at some other time?

Jesus was into heavy-duty warnings about committing sin …
• “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better
for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth
of the sea … If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands
or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.” (Matthew 18:6-8)
• “He who overcomes (sin, etc.) shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake
which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.” (John 8:34)


Paul warned the believers in Rome about habitual sinning …
“… that we should no longer be slaves of sin.” (Romans 6:6)
Notice that Paul does NOT say to these believers: We will no longer be slaves of sin!
They needed to choose to not be “(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16)

“Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin … For sin
shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:12-14)

Because of God’s grace, the believer has been given a new nature and the Holy Spirit.
Praise the Lord … the born-again believer NO longer has to be a slave of sin!
“Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36)
Jesus has made believers “free indeed” … free to NO longer have to sin!
“… you were slaves of sin … And having been set free from sin
… But now having been set free from sin …” (Romans 6:17-22)


Now, here is where Paul goes into his exhortation and encouragement specialty!
The following are supposed to be true, and they are what Paul is truly hoping for:
“you became slaves of righteousness” Romans 6:18)
“having become slaves of God” Romans 6:22)

If this was really true, Paul would not be warning them so much about their sinning!

What was actually the situation is reflected in his instructions …
• “(present) your members as instruments of righteousness to God” Romans 6:13)
• “present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” Romans 6:19)

Because they could CHOOSE to continue sinning, or they could CHOOSE to live righteously!
• “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slave whom you obey, whether (a slave) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (a slave) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)


The SIN LISTS declare that anyone practicing sin cannot inherit/enter the kingdom of God!
“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries,
and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that
those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)

The other Sin Lists are: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:3-6, Colossians 3:5-6, Revelation 21:7-8.

“… and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)


We see all of these dire warnings directed at the churches simply because:
The believer’s future sins have NOT been covered by Jesus’ blood.

“… narrow is the gate and difficult (narrow, compressed, restricted) is the way
which leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14)


Speaking of habitual unrepentant sinners … what sense does it make when
unbelievers sin and go to hell … while … believers sin and go to heaven?

Are all of the Scriptures above a pile of nonsense?
Or perhaps you can see that your sins are NOT covered and need to be taken care of!
In another thread, we will investigate how believers are called to deal with this critical problem.
 

Truster

New member
You have a seriously flawed idea of what sin is. Therefore you have a flawed idea of what the forgiveness of sin and the accompanying benefits of the application of redemption are.

On the other hand you are very good at cut and paste.
 

Cross Reference

New member
You have a seriously flawed idea of what sin is. Therefore you have a flawed idea of what the forgiveness of sin and the accompanying benefits of the application of redemption are.

On the other hand you are very good at cut and paste.

I would like to read your idea of what you believe sin is and what is the cure that seals one?
 

ZacharyB

Active member
... what is the cure that seals one?
I would like to warn you that salvation is a life-long process.

This sealing shows the spirit-world that one has been sanctified,
as in "set apart", for the fun-fun process of sanctification unto holiness,
which hopefully results in eternal life.

Yes, Paulie used that word "hope" too ... several times!
However, people don'ts wants to dwell on uncomfy tings duz dey!
But ... no dwelling, no heaven ... no dwelling here, no dwelling there!
 

Cross Reference

New member
I would like to warn you that salvation is a life-long process.

This sealing shows the spirit-world that one has been sanctified,
as in "set apart", for the fun-fun process of sanctification unto holiness,
which hopefully results in eternal life.

Yes, Paulie used that word "hope" too ... several times!
However, people don'ts wants to dwell on uncomfy tings duz dey!
But ... no dwelling, no heaven ... no dwelling here, no dwelling there!

Why presume to think you have to warn me??

Here:

Receiving His presence, our new birth, is one thing. Commiting to Him, is another. Receiving Him only means "I can be" while commiting to Him will mean, "I will " (cf Jn1:12). Consecration is my part. Sanctification is His. The moment we act upon His presence is when we can begin to live by His life.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Are all of the Scriptures above a pile of nonsense?
Or perhaps you can see that your sins are NOT covered and need to be taken care of!
The sin/sins issue was settled 2000 years before we were even born!

Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! Christ rose victorious! He was raised again for our justification proving that God the Father accepted Christ's FULL PAYMENT for the wages of sin which is death (Romans 5:12 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV).

Sin/sins is NOT THE ISSUE today! All of the work necessary to save anyone today was accomplished by God through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in the worlds place!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 

Cross Reference

New member
The sin/sins issue was settled 2000 years before we were even born!

Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! Christ rose victorious! He was raised again for our justification proving that God the Father accepted Christ's FULL PAYMENT for the wages of sin which is death (Romans 5:12 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV).

Sin/sins is NOT THE ISSUE today! All of the work necessary to save anyone today was accomplished by God through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in the worlds place!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


So when do you believe it might be necessary for you surrender your life over to Him Who did all that for you?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I would like to warn you that salvation is a life-long process.
That's what the religious, denominational system run by deceitful workers tells people and it's a lie!

Salvation is a gift by God's grace through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in our place!

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
So when do you believe it might be necessary for you surrender your life over to Him Who did all that for you?
When will you stop placing stumbling blocks (your made up requirements) in front of people that they not see that it is the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV) not surrender?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

We were reconciled by Jesus' death and we are saved by his life in us.
 

musterion

Well-known member
So when do you believe it might be necessary for you surrender your life over to Him Who did all that for you?

You're asking the completely wrong question.

Heir, as born in Adam, died with Christ. Her life is now Christ's (Gal 2:20; Col 3:4). There's a reason the two of you do not understand/do not believe this.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
How many times do I have to tell you ???
Paul was writing to the "faithful" saints in Ephesus!
But, you have absolutely NO idea what being faithful is!
It is definitely not climbing on the easy-grace train to heaven.

Jesus preached an obedience-holiness discipleship gospel unto eternal life.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Why, haven't you heard? ... The apostate Tottie did.
Well, if she ever was a true believer, she is apostate now (ref. Jude).

Anyone who has trusted the Lord believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation are sealed unto the day of redemption and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Ephesians 4:30 KJV)! That's what drives you religious, but lost deceitful workers crazy!
 
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