The Land was Promised to Abraham, not Heaven

[TrevorL]

The Land was Promised to Abraham, not Heaven
The importance and connection of the Promises to Abraham to the One Gospel and the bearing of this upon the believer today is firstly stated in the following:
Galatians 3:6–7 (KJV): 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Verses 6 and 7 establishes that Abraham was justified by faith and those who share this faith of the One Gospel with Abraham will also be justified by faith and Paul calls these the children of Abraham. The above is based upon Genesis 15:6 where Abraham was promised a seed or descendant who would be his heir.
Genesis 15:4–6 (KJV): 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:8–9 (KJV): 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Verse 8 further endorses this by stating that this One Gospel was preached to Abraham in the terms of the last phrase of the promises in Genesis 12:1-3:
Genesis 12:1–3 (KJV): 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Verse 9 confirms that this blessing flows through to the believer of this One Gospel.

We have briefly considered two portions of the Promises to Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3 and Genesis 15:4-6 and both of these are well known. In summary we considered the blessing upon the believer in the One Gospel, that they are justified by faith in the One Gospel. The promises are further expanded in the following:
Genesis 13:14–15 (KJV): 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Abraham was promised the Land, as he was told to look north, south, east and west and that he and his seed or descendant would in the future inherit this Land.

Paul alludes to the Promises and explains who this “Seed” in Genesis 13:15 is, in the following:
Galatians 3:16 (KJV): Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
This is very specific, as Paul states that the descendant that is the subject of the promises is Christ, and thus both Abraham and Jesus are to inherit the Land.

Now if Abraham and Jesus are to inherit the Land mentioned in Genesis 13:14-15 we could ask how is this relevant to us. Paul answers this in the following:
Galatians 3:26–29 (KJV): 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Those that believe the One Gospel are incorporated into Christ, and become part of the Seed of Abraham and inheritors of the Land promised to Abraham. The promise of the Land is an important aspect of the One Gospel that was preached by Jesus and the Apostles. Abraham and the believers are promised the Land, not Heaven. The faithful who have died will be raised from the grave and together with the faithful now living today will inherit the Land when Jesus returns to establish the Kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years.

This is consistent with the teaching of Jesus:
Matthew 5:1–5 (KJV): 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
It will be the Kingdom of heaven, the Kingdom of God on earth Daniel 2:44, Acts 3:19-21, as it will be from heaven, not in heaven. The faithful will inherit the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

The Land was Promised to Abraham, not Heaven
The importance and connection of the Promises to Abraham to the One Gospel and the bearing of this upon the believer today is firstly stated in the following:
Galatians 3:6–7 (KJV): 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Verses 6 and 7 establishes that Abraham was justified by faith and those who share this faith of the One Gospel with Abraham will also be justified by faith and Paul calls these the children of Abraham. The above is based upon Genesis 15:6 where Abraham was promised a seed or descendant who would be his heir.
Genesis 15:4–6 (KJV): 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:8–9 (KJV): 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Verse 8 further endorses this by stating that this One Gospel was preached to Abraham in the terms of the last phrase of the promises in Genesis 12:1-3:
Genesis 12:1–3 (KJV): 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Verse 9 confirms that this blessing flows through to the believer of this One Gospel.

We have briefly considered two portions of the Promises to Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3 and Genesis 15:4-6 and both of these are well known. In summary we considered the blessing upon the believer in the One Gospel, that they are justified by faith in the One Gospel. The promises are further expanded in the following:
Genesis 13:14–15 (KJV): 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Abraham was promised the Land, as he was told to look north, south, east and west and that he and his seed or descendant would in the future inherit this Land.

Paul alludes to the Promises and explains who this “Seed” in Genesis 13:15 is, in the following:
Galatians 3:16 (KJV): Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
This is very specific, as Paul states that the descendant that is the subject of the promises is Christ, and thus both Abraham and Jesus are to inherit the Land.

Now if Abraham and Jesus are to inherit the Land mentioned in Genesis 13:14-15 we could ask how is this relevant to us. Paul answers this in the following:
Galatians 3:26–29 (KJV): 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Those that believe the One Gospel are incorporated into Christ, and become part of the Seed of Abraham and inheritors of the Land promised to Abraham. The promise of the Land is an important aspect of the One Gospel that was preached by Jesus and the Apostles. Abraham and the believers are promised the Land, not Heaven. The faithful who have died will be raised from the grave and together with the faithful now living today will inherit the Land when Jesus returns to establish the Kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years.

This is consistent with the teaching of Jesus:
Matthew 5:1–5 (KJV): 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
It will be the Kingdom of heaven, the Kingdom of God on earth Daniel 2:44, Acts 3:19-21, as it will be from heaven, not in heaven. The faithful will inherit the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

Abraham looked for a heavenly land Heb 11:16

¹⁶ But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beloved57,

Abraham looked for a heavenly land Heb 11:16 ¹⁶ But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I appreciate the response and I hope we can resolve our different perspectives on this. My brief answer is that it will be a heavenly country and a heavenly city because it is from heaven, not in heaven.

Looking at the immediate context:
Hebrews 11:13–16 (KJV): 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Verse 13 states that they did not receive the promises, but considered that they were afar off. Now if the promises were afar off, it means that they are yet to be fulfilled, but nevertheless Abraham considered that they would be fulfilled in the distant future. This rules out the idea that the promises were superseded by going to heaven at death. They considered that they were as strangers and pilgrims in the land at that time.

The question arises as to when Abraham will receive the fulfilment of the promises. I have suggested that it was not immediately after his death. Was it soon after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus? This is answered in the same chapter, as it tells us that it had still not happened at the time of the writing of this Letter to the Hebrews.
Hebrews 11:39–40 (KJV): 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Also, the one direction that Abraham was not invited to look was towards heaven. He was invited to look north, south, east and west, not towards heaven, and it specifically states he would receive the land which he beheld:
Genesis 13:14–15 (KJV): 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
So my conclusion is that Abraham will receive the promise of the Land when Jesus returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings beloved57, I appreciate the response and I hope we can resolve our different perspectives on this. My brief answer is that it will be a heavenly country and a heavenly city because it is from heaven, not in heaven.

Looking at the immediate context:
Hebrews 11:13–16 (KJV): 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Verse 13 states that they did not receive the promises, but considered that they were afar off. Now if the promises were afar off, it means that they are yet to be fulfilled, but nevertheless Abraham considered that they would be fulfilled in the distant future. This rules out the idea that the promises were superseded by going to heaven at death. They considered that they were as strangers and pilgrims in the land at that time.

The question arises as to when Abraham will receive the fulfilment of the promises. I have suggested that it was not immediately after his death. Was it soon after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus? This is answered in the same chapter, as it tells us that it had still not happened at the time of the writing of this Letter to the Hebrews.
Hebrews 11:39–40 (KJV): 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Also, the one direction that Abraham was not invited to look was towards heaven. He was invited to look north, south, east and west, not towards heaven, and it specifically states he would receive the land which he beheld:
Genesis 13:14–15 (KJV): 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
So my conclusion is that Abraham will receive the promise of the Land when Jesus returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

It's a heavenly country !

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beloved57,

It's a heavenly country !

Yes, it is of or from heaven, a heavenly country, not in heaven. The Kingdom of God will be established by the God of heaven, and it will replace the present kingdoms of men.
Daniel 2:35,44 (KJV): 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Thus the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of Heaven is future.
Hebrews 12:25–29 (KJV) 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 13:14 (KJV): For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV): Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 8:11 (KJV): And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:28–29 (KJV): 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings beloved57, Yes, it is of or from heaven, a heavenly country, not in heaven. The Kingdom of God will be established by the God of heaven, and it will replace the present kingdoms of men.
Daniel 2:35,44 (KJV): 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Thus the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of Heaven is future.
Hebrews 12:25–29 (KJV) 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 13:14 (KJV): For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV): Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 8:11 (KJV): And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:28–29 (KJV): 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

It's a heavenly country, spiritual. The Heavenly relates to the spiritual not the natural. 1 Cor 15:46-48


⁴⁶ Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

⁴⁷ The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

⁴⁸ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

It's a heavenly country, spiritual. The Heavenly relates to the spiritual not the natural. 1 Cor 15:46-48
⁴⁶ Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
⁴⁷ The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
⁴⁸ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

I am not sure exactly what you are saying as it is both vague and ambiguous. Could I ask as to where you believe Abraham is now? And also what is the sequence? Do you believe that we have an immortal soul that goes to heaven when we die? When does the immortal soul get reunited with the body and what happens next? When is the Judgement?

For my part I believe that when we die we return to the dust awaiting for the resurrection of the body when Christ returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth. We have no consciousness until then, and the figure of "sleep" is used. Those that are judged worthy at the return of Jesus are given eternal life.
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, I am not sure exactly what you are saying as it is both vague and ambiguous. Could I ask as to where you believe Abraham is now? And also what is the sequence? Do you believe that we have an immortal soul that goes to heaven when we die? When does the immortal soul get reunited with the body and what happens next? When is the Judgement?

For my part I believe that when we die we return to the dust awaiting for the resurrection of the body when Christ returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth. We have no consciousness until then, and the figure of "sleep" is used. Those that are judged worthy at the return of Jesus are given eternal life.
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

The land promised to Abraham is spiritual and heavenly!

 

[JudgeRightly]

The land promised to Abraham is spiritual and heavenly!

No, it's not, as Revelation clearly makes the distinction between a new heaven and a new earth that God makes.

If everyone is in Heaven, then why make a new Earth?

 

[clefty]

No, it's not, as Revelation clearly makes the distinction between a new heaven and a new earth that God makes.

If everyone is in Heaven, then why make a new Earth?

Heaven is temporary where we sukkot...as our permanent home is rebuilt...after given sabbath rest...desolate 1000 years...

then the New Jerusalem comes down...and I guess crushes "your" 1000 year temple?...there is NONE in the new...

And then we all keep seventh day Sabbaths...and do not eat unclean meat...

as it was BEFORE this detour of sin...when Eve thought His Laws were "NOT FOR ME" and deceived herself too with new ones she made up...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Heaven is temporary where we sukkot...

English, please.

as our permanent home is rebuilt...after given sabbath rest...desolate 1000 years...

then the New Jerusalem comes down...and I guess crushes "your" 1000 year temple?...there is NONE in the new...

Let's just allow what scripture says to speak for itself.

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation21:1-4&version=NKJV

And then we all keep seventh day Sabbaths...and do not eat unclean meat...

What are you even talking about?

as it was BEFORE this detour of sin...when Eve thought His Laws were "NOT FOR ME" and deceived herself too with new ones she made up...

Which laws did Eve make up?

 

[clefty]

English, please.

lol...Right...King Jimmy’s English?

You might know Jimmy’s English is NOT the main language of scripture?

Sukkot is Hebrew for the booths...a reference to a festival where temporary dwellings are made to reside in as a memorial to when this ekklesia...oh sorry...this BODY was in the OT wilderness...ALREADY with Him as its Head and full of those NOT of Jacob...

So Heaven being a temporary booth we are to come back here to the new earth to live as before this detour of sin...

even the land rests...desolate...as His temporarily reside “where I am there ye may be also”

Let's just allow what scripture says to speak for itself.

“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. “

yes passed AWAY...not passed into a Jewish world rule from the 3rd temple...

Or else where would this millennial 3rd temple kingdom pass away too?

”Also there was no more sea.”

no more sea...literally it was desolate...and spiritually as sea represents multitudes peoples nations...

”Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

a city is a bride? Or its inhabitants the faithful obedient ones who overcame?

”And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people.”

yes...the obedient and faithful ARE A TEMPLE the Jew and Greek JOINED into a Holy Temple...

“God Himself will be with them and be their God.And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

yup...former things HAVE ALL PASSED AWAY...1000 years ago...NO 3rd physical temple in this City no kingdom of Jews...as He NEEDS NONE...He and the Lamb are its temple...

What are you even talking about?

The New Earth lifestyle...you know what Isaiah was talking about...the New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath when ALL will worship...Isaiah 66:22-23

Oh and I’m expecting “no more death” as you cited...so we will eat clean foods only...no more bacon...LOL...sorry...

Which laws did Eve make up?

“nor shall you touch it” Gen 3:3 Yah did’t say that...

Adding NEW law has always been a problem...known as idolatry...leads to deception...of self and others...and into another gospel...another christ...another way...another temple...another kingdom...as His are claimed “NOT FOR ME”

 

[beloved57]

The land promised to Abraham was heaven ! Heb 11:8-16

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

⁹ By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

¹⁰ For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

¹¹ Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

¹² Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

¹³ These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

¹⁴ For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

¹⁵ And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

¹⁶ But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

The land promised to Abraham was heaven !

Heb 11:8-16 ¹⁶ But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city

Abraham was instructed to look north, south, east and west, not towards heaven. It is heavenly, because it is from God, of heaven, not in heaven. The God of heaven is going to set up a Kingdom Daniel 2:44, and this Kingdom will be established at the return of Jesus and replace the present kingdoms of men.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, Abraham was instructed to look north, south, east and west, not towards heaven. It is heavenly, because it is from God, of heaven, not in heaven. The God of heaven is going to set up a Kingdom Daniel 2:44, and this Kingdom will be established at the return of Jesus and replace the present kingdoms of men.

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes it is heaven, there will be a new heaven and earth. Abraham was promised the same inheritance as all the saints 1 Pet 1:4

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

There's only one inheritance and it's heaven!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Yes it is heaven, there will be a new heaven and earth.

The new heaven and earth are described in the following:
Isaiah 65:17–25 (KJV): 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Abraham was promised the same inheritance as all the saints

1 Pet 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
There's only one inheritance and it's heaven!

It is reserved in heaven, but will be brought with Jesus when he returns:
Colossians 3:2–4 (KJV): 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Matthew 5:5 (KJV): Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Matthew 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

John 14:2-4 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Mark 12:24-27 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Revelation 12:10-12 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, The new heaven and earth are described in the following:
Isaiah 65:17–25 (KJV): 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
It is reserved in heaven, but will be brought with Jesus when he returns:
Colossians 3:2–4 (KJV): 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Matthew 5:5 (KJV): Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

It's the same inheritance, heavenly!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings “WonderfulLordJesus”,

Matthew 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Yes, this was a vision of the future Kingdom, and I personally believe that Moses and Elijah were temporarily raised from the dead in order to participate in this enactment of what the Kingdom will be like when Jesus returns. Please note that not only did Jesus appear in glory, but also Moses and Elijah also appeared in glory. On the other hand, Peter, John and James did not appear in glory, but were only witnesses and Peter was able to speak to Jesus, Moses and Elijah:
Luke 9:29–31 (KJV): 29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. 30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

2 Peter 1:16–18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
All of the above is conformity with the resurrection at the return of Jesus when he will judge the faithful and unfaithful and establish the Kingdom 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8.

John 14:2-4 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

This has a number of layers, and the first is where Jesus already was “where I am” and also where he was going when he spoke these words. He was going to be crucified and then raised and as a result we can have an abiding place in the Father’s house. The “many mansions” are not speaking about luxurious double story mansions with a big bar and swimming pool in heaven. The Father’s house is the Temple, the spiritual house Hebrews 3:1-6.

Mark 12:24-27 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

This is not speaking about immortal souls going to heaven at death. It is talking about the resurrection.
Mark 12:18–23 (KJV): 18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, 19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. 21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. 22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. 23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
I believe in the resurrection at the return of Jesus, not immortal souls that go to heaven or hell at death.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

This has a number of layers, and the first is where Jesus already was “where I am” and also where he was going when he spoke these words. He was going to be crucified and then raised and as a result we can have an abiding place in the Father’s house. The “many mansions” are not speaking about luxurious double story mansions with a big bar and swimming pool in heaven.

Greetings to you, too. So, Jesus, with those layers, was sort of making a doctrinal, deluxe bean dip, albeit spiritual beans? (Is there anywhere in scripture where you believe God means exactly what He says, could perhaps thus narrow the focus?) Whatever the case, I'm relieved at it not being double story mansions, as I'd always envisioned something sprawling, preferably off the beaten path, maybe in the foothills, but ranch style, couldn't see having to walk up and down stairs, for all eternity. But I do believe all those "carnal Christians" that touched the TV set for Billy Graham, then it was back to that dusty Bible, drinks all around at the bar and football, are going to be quite disappointed over the dearth of bars and swimming pools! Maybe you could at least offer them hope of NASCAR?

You thinking then Moses and Elijah sort of got punked, too? The God of the living sent them back to the dead? Never mind that, on second thought. Not sure I'm ready for the rest of that doctrine.

Since you don't believe in eternal spirits, or anybody going to heaven, but take it you believe in some sort of resurrection body, so what's your Second Coming scenario? The Lord Jesus comes back, gives you forty acres and a mule, in Israel?

It dawned on me you have the makings of a whole new denomination there! Let me know if you need help naming it.