ECT The real crimes of John Nelson Darby

[Totton Linnet]

I've said this before

The real crime of Darby is not dispensations, he is not the father of dispensations as people keep saying.
Dispensations besides being thoroughly Pauline and biblical have always been taught by the church whether Catholic or Protestant, they were more usually known as God's economies and they describe the different ways in which each covenant God has made with man is administrated.

Dispensation = administration

Nor was Darby a Mid Acts Dispensationalist.

He did strongly emphasise the apostleship to the Gentiles of Paul, he is called "our Apostle" in this Darby was not wrong. The Jerusalem crowd emphasised the gospel using the Law and Prophets as shadows. Paul could not do so except when he was speaking to Gentiles through a Jewish audience.

The Gentiles never were subject to the Law and Prophets. Paul's starting point with the Gentiles must always be the Holy Spirit.

So what IS Darby's real crime?

He is the modern day father of pre-tribulation rapture. And he really is criminal because [he was highly intellectual] he KNEW he was changing the meaning of words and bible terms in order to make his theology float.

The church has always taught that the church would go through the tribulation, a period of intense endtime persecution.

Jesus taught it, the apostles taught it and the church has always believed it.

Jesus even says "after the tribulation of those days ......... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"

Although Darby always strenuously denied it he certainly did get his idea for a secret pre-trib coming of the Lord from the discredited Edward Irving.

The tribulation precedes the Day of the Lord and is not the wrath of God. Tribulation in scripture always come the world, not God.

 

[HisServant]

....have always been taught by the church whether Catholic or Protestant, they were more usually known as God's economies and they describe the different ways in which each covenant God has made with man is administrated.....

Double speak... no such thing as an 'economy' or 'administration' was traditionally taught in any denomination prior to heresy of dispensationalism raising its ugly head.

Keep being self deluded... only God can cure you.

Darby dumbed down scripture because he was too stupid to harmonize it... so he artificially divided it into imaginary sections... and his adherents have been arguing about how many sections there are ever since.

But I am sure you will twist the meaning of some word and introduce more double speak to 'correct' the error of my ways.

There has only been ONE way to salvation ever since Adam fell... there has only ever been ONE administration or economy, since there is only ONE there is no reason to talk of it.

 

[serpentdove]

The church has always taught that the church would go through the tribulation...

You think the bridegroom: drags his bride through the mud, exposes her to nuclear war, rape gangs, etc. prior to her wedding? :dizzy: 1 Thess 5:9

See:

What is the Great Tribulation?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Double speak... no such thing as an 'economy' or 'administration' was traditionally taught in any denomination prior to heresy of dispensationalism raising its ugly head.

Keep being self deluded... only God can cure you.

Darby dumbed down scripture because he was too stupid to harmonize it... so he artificially divided it into imaginary sections... and his adherents have been arguing about how many sections there are ever since.

But I am sure you will twist the meaning of some word and introduce more double speak to 'correct' the error of my ways.

There has only been ONE way to salvation ever since Adam fell... there has only ever been ONE administration or economy, since there is only ONE there is no reason to talk of it.

Economy-administration-dispensation all the same thing, deal with it.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You think the bridegroom: drags his bride through the mud, exposes her to nuclear war, rape gangs, etc. prior to her wedding? :dizzy: 1 Thess 5:9

See:

What is the Great Tribulation?

How dumb are you? that's the real question

His Bride has been dragged through 2 horrific world wars in the last 100 years. Jesus said in the world you will have tribulation...Paul said through much tribulation must we enter the kingdom of heaven [oh, I thought Paul did not teach kingdom]

The wrath of God occurs after God has gathered His people....the saints to the clouds to meet the Lord and the Jews to Israel. The wrath of God is poured [unmitigated] upon the nations which come up with Antichrist to Jerusalem.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Double speak... no such thing as an 'economy' or 'administration' was traditionally taught in any denomination prior to heresy of dispensationalism raising its ugly head.

Keep being self deluded... only God can cure you.

Darby dumbed down scripture because he was too stupid to harmonize it... so he artificially divided it into imaginary sections... and his adherents have been arguing about how many sections there are ever since.

But I am sure you will twist the meaning of some word and introduce more double speak to 'correct' the error of my ways.

There has only been ONE way to salvation ever since Adam fell... there has only ever been ONE administration or economy, since there is only ONE there is no reason to talk of it.

So we are to come to God like Abel with a lamb? yes, yes, we understand the representation but the administration of what the lamb represented was different. This administration is called a dispensation.

 

[HisServant]

You think the bridegroom: drags his bride through the mud, exposes her to nuclear war, rape gangs, etc. prior to her wedding? :dizzy: 1 Thess 5:9

See:

What is the Great Tribulation?

Given that we are not to fear what can kill the body.. I don't think God cares about what happens to us on this earth, other than we are to do as the Holy Spirit guides us.

A pre-trib rapture would really lower my confidence in the God I see in scripture.

 

[HisServant]

So we are to come to God like Abel with a lamb? yes, yes, we understand the representation but the administration of what the lamb represented was different. This administration is called a dispensation.

The lamb had nothing to do with an economy of salvation.

 

[serpentdove]

How dumb are you? That's the real question...

:yawn: ad hominem Eph 4:14

... Jesus said in the world you will have tribulation...

You should already have been experiencing that if you are a a believer (2 Thess 2:3, Mt 10:17). :hammer:

 

[Totton Linnet]

Go and do a little study...pleeeze


It is good and most important that you do recognise the gospel in Abel

 

[Totton Linnet]

:yawn: ad hominem Eph 4:14
You should already have been experiencing that if you are a a believer (2 Thess 2:3, Mt 10:17). :hammer:

YOU are giving me tribulation

 

[serpentdove]

Given that we are not to fear what can kill the body, I don't think God cares about what happens to us on this earth...

Sure he does (Mt 10:29-31). We have nothing to fear. :rapture: They have a whole lot to fear.

The Great Tribulation will be unlike anything that the world has ever seen (Mt 24:21). Regular tribulation--mini tribulation--that's just par for the course for the believer (Mt 10:22, Ro 8:18).

...A pre-trib rapture would really lower my confidence in the God I see in scripture.

You can tell him that when you meet him (Mt 12:36). :juggle:

 

[serpentdove]

YOU are giving me tribulation

:chuckle: It's a start.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The lamb had nothing to do with an economy of salvation.

Do try to think

Abel brought his lamb and God administered or dispensed or afforded to Abel salvation...that is how the thing works

 

[Totton Linnet]

:chuckle: It's a start.

hehe

...I must be an awful sinner

 

[DAN P]

Economy-administration-dispensation all the same thing, deal with it.

Hi and DISPENSATION in the Greek OIKONOMIA and is OIKOS which means HOUSE and NOMOS means LAW , so nthen it means HOUSE LAW , so deal with it !!

dan p

 

[andyc]

I've said this before

The real crime of Darby is not dispensations, he is not the father of dispensations as people keep saying.
Dispensations besides being thoroughly Pauline and biblical have always been taught by the church whether Catholic or Protestant, they were more usually known as God's economies and they describe the different ways in which each covenant God has made with man is administrated.

Dispensation = administration

Nor was Darby a Mid Acts Dispensationalist.

He did strongly emphasise the apostleship to the Gentiles of Paul, he is called "our Apostle" in this Darby was not wrong. The Jerusalem crowd emphasised the gospel using the Law and Prophets as shadows. Paul could not do so except when he was speaking to Gentiles through a Jewish audience.

The Gentiles never were subject to the Law and Prophets. Paul's starting point with the Gentiles must always be the Holy Spirit.

So what IS Darby's real crime?

He is the modern day father of pre-tribulation rapture. And he really is criminal because [he was highly intellectual] he KNEW he was changing the meaning of words and bible terms in order to make his theology float.

The church has always taught that the church would go through the tribulation, a period of intense endtime persecution.

Jesus taught it, the apostles taught it and the church has always believed it.

Jesus even says "after the tribulation of those days ......... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory"

Although Darby always strenuously denied it he certainly did get his idea for a secret pre-trib coming of the Lord from the discredited Edward Irving.

The tribulation precedes the Day of the Lord and is not the wrath of God. Tribulation in scripture always come the world, not God.

Darby and Irving began the trend of focusing on the specific time period where they assume the church will be called up. This is why they are regarded as the granddaddies of dispensationalism. It was Bullinger who took it further, and those following him have tried to refine it to the rhubarb we see today.

 

[andyc]

How dumb are you? that's the real question

His Bride has been dragged through 2 horrific world wars in the last 100 years. Jesus said in the world you will have tribulation...Paul said through much tribulation must we enter the kingdom of heaven [oh, I thought Paul did not teach kingdom]

The wrath of God occurs after God has gathered His people....the saints to the clouds to meet the Lord and the Jews to Israel. The wrath of God is poured [unmitigated] upon the nations which come up with Antichrist to Jerusalem.

What is happening at the moment with the UK's EU referendum approaching is very significant for the church in the UK. If the UK votes to stay in, we'll soon see the formation of a federal states of europe controlled by Germany. The same spirit working through hitler to take europe by force, will be working through subtlety. The spirit of antichrst persues the woman (Israel) and her offspring.

 

[serpentdove]

Darby and Irving began the trend of focusing on the specific time period where they assume the church will be called up. This is why they are regarded as the granddaddies of dispensationalism. It was Bullinger who took it further, and those following him have tried to refine it to the rhubarb we see today.

No one knows the day or hour (Mt 24:36) but we can have an idea (1 Thess 5:5). :juggle:

"Mt 24:32 parable from the fig tree. When the fig branch “puts forth leaves,” only a short time remains until summer. Likewise, when the final labor pains begin (see note on v. 14), Christ’s return “is near; it is at the doors!” (v. 33)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[andyc]

No one knows the day or hour (Mt 24:36) but we can have an idea (1 Thess 5:5). :juggle:

"Mt 24:32 parable from the fig tree. When the fig branch “puts forth leaves,” only a short time remains until summer. Likewise, when the final labor pains begin (see note on v. 14), Christ’s return “is near; it is at the doors!” (v. 33)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

You won't find any reference in scripture to a rapture of the church occurring before the tribulation. It is the persecution of the people of God that causes the tribulation. Like the Hebrews in Goshen who were oppressed, God responded with great tribulation.