One on One: beanieboy's questions get answered.

[Nathon Detroit]

beanieboy has made the claim that it is very difficult for him to get the answers he desires here at TOL. beanieboy has stated that....

If I ask, "is it really christian to be acting the way you are," and someone tells me that I need to shutup or calls me a name, that it isn't answering the question either.

I am fine with getting a straight answer, questioning it, understanding the reasoning, and even agreeing to disagree.
But often, the questions go unanswered.

So, I have offered to give beanieboy the direct answers he desires.

In this thread I have agreed to answer any questions that beaniboy has of me and I will answer those questions to the best of my ability without unjustly calling him names or yelling at him.

beanieboy has agreed to consider my answers in an honest way and respond to the counter questions I may ask of him.

At stake for beanieboy is he will no longer be able to criticize TOL for not getting the answers he desires in the manner he prefers. At stake for me will be the possibility of wasting an investment of time if it turns out beanieboy is not sincere in his quest for answers.

Here is how this is going to work. I will field ONE QUESTION at a time. I will not begin to answer a second or third question until I feel we have properly and sufficiently covered the current question. I will answer as many questions as beanieboy wants or until we both determine we have gone as far as we can go and then I will close this thread.

We both have busy schedules so we will do our best to respond to each other in a timely manner.

beanieboy? Do you agree?

If so, please ask your first "unanswered" question.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Oh and beanieboy... I just set up this forum and usergoup so if you cant post or something PM me and I will fix it.

The way it SHOULD work is that any "Focus" usergroup member should be able to post here but everyone else can only view the threads. Currently you are the only member of the "Focus" usergroup.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

beanie... when you get a chance could you post something in this thread so that I know you have seen it and that it functions as intented?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

beanie?

 

[beanieboy]

Busy schedule. sorry.
This is really nice of you!! Thank you!

I am curious and inquisitive by nature, so, in advance, I appologize for the "why?" responses I may give you, ie, "why is the sky blue?" "because it reflects light." "why?" "Because blue light has shorter wavelengths." "Why"? "Each color has a different wave length enabling us to discern color." Why? ahhhhhh. <---------- apologizing. It's my nature to go to the end of my question.

Hm.

Q: Is a thread like Clete's: Which would you rather - apropriate for this forum? Why or why not?

(and a side question - how do I find this thread again? I found it from catty's shout out.)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Busy schedule. sorry.
This is really nice of you!! Thank you!

I am curious and inquisitive by nature, so, in advance, I appologize for the "why?" responses I may give you, ie, "why is the sky blue?" "because it reflects light." "why?" "Because blue light has shorter wavelengths." "Why"? "Each color has a different wave length enabling us to discern color." Why? ahhhhhh. <---------- apologizing. It's my nature to go to the end of my question.

Hm.

OK... good. So now I know my setup works! You can post, I can post... and I am assuming everyone else can only read this thread.

Q: Is a thread like Clete's: Which would you rather - apropriate for this forum? Why or why not?

YES. Its appropriate because mocking extreme wickedness is a excellent way of stigmatizing behavior that is exceedingly wicked.

(and a side question - how do I find this thread again? I found it from catty's shout out.)

At the top of the thread click on "Thread Tools" and subscribe to this forum. Then you can always find it in your USER CP.

 

[beanieboy]

OK... good. So now I know my setup works! You can post, I can post... and I am assuming everyone else can only read this thread.

YES. Its appropriate because mocking extreme wickedness is a excellent way of stigmatizing behavior that is exceedingly wicked.

At the top of the thread click on "Thread Tools" and subscribe to this forum. Then you can always find it in your USER CP.

Thanks for the answers.

Followup - do you not think that the behavior was stigmatized already?
I didn't see it really changing opinion. If anything, it created more sympathy.
Does christ command followers to spend a lot of time mocking others?

Q on deck: Calvinism - can you state what problems you see with that belief system?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Thanks for the answers.

Followup - do you not think that the behavior was stigmatized already?

An effective stigma is something that is maintained.

I didn't see it really changing opinion. If anything, it created more sympathy.

Stigmas are great for polarizing opinion.

It is important that people identify with the side that they are on. A stigma helps to define that side. Those that side with wickedness are sometimes exposed with an effective stigma.

Does christ command followers to spend a lot of time mocking others?

This question is too vague. "a lot of time"? I am not sure what you would consider "a lot" and "mocking others"? Who are "others"? Generally speaking "Others" are not to be mocked. Only the wicked is to be mocked, rebuked and warned.

God doesn't want us to leave any tool unused when it comes to preaching the gospel. Eternity is a long time yet life on earth is short. It is more important to pull out all the stops in an attempt to rebuke the wicked than it is to befriend the wicked and then ponder for an eternity if you could have done more.

 

[beanieboy]

An effective stigma is something that is maintained.

Stigmas are great for polarizing opinion.

It is important that people identify with the side that they are on. A stigma helps to define that side. Those that side with wickedness are sometimes exposed with an effective stigma.


This question is too vague. "a lot of time"? I am not sure what you would consider "a lot" and "mocking others"? Who are "others"? Generally speaking "Others" are not to be mocked. Only the wicked is to be mocked, rebuked and warned.

God doesn't want us to leave any tool unused when it comes to preaching the gospel. Eternity is a long time yet life on earth is short. It is more important to pull out all the stops in an attempt to rebuke the wicked than it is to befriend the wicked and then ponder for an eternity if you could have done more.

I haven't seen the mocking behavior do much more than return equally mocking behavior.
Do you find that mocking pushes people away, or opens them up to what you have to say, more times than not?
On the same line: Is it valid to say that Jesus called sinners Vipers, when it is actually addressed to the pharisees, who were teachers within the temple, and not the tax collectors and prostitutes? Is it honest?

Thanks again.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I haven't seen the mocking behavior do much more than return equally mocking behavior.
Do you find that mocking pushes people away, or opens them up to what you have to say, more times than not?

Mocking generally pushes people away.

On the same line: Is it valid to say that Jesus called sinners Vipers, when it is actually addressed to the pharisees, who were teachers within the temple, and not the tax collectors and prostitutes? Is it honest?

Jesus used whatever term He felt appropriate for a given situation.

Acknowledging that Jesus used these tactics at all is an affirmation that I am correct and that being harsh is godly.

 

[beanieboy]

Thanks for your answers.

Q: Calvinism? What are your basic problems with it?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Thanks for your answers.

Q: Calvinism? What are your basic problems with it?

The five points of Calvinism (TULIP)

T - Total Inability = No man can come to Christ unless God predestines him to come to Christ. Yet how then could men resist this calling?

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 5:40 “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

U - Unconditional Election = Some men are elected to heaven and some men are elected to Hell. Yet God seems to desire ALL men to come to Christ.

John 12:32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

1Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Timothy 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

1Timothy 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

L - Limited Atonement = Christ only died for the elect. Yet the Bible indicates that Christ died for all men.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

1John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

John 4:42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

Romans 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

I - Irresistable Grace = God forces some people to be saved. But how can something be "GRACE" if it is forced?

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, 25 Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,

John 5:40 “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Acts 7:51 “You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

P - Perseverance of the Saints = God will force the saints to persevere. Does God force the believer to persevere or does He simply preserve our inheritance?

Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ephesians 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Ephesians 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory

Colossians 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.

 

[beanieboy]

Thanks again, Knight.
And thank you for the references.
That's a pretty conplicated answer, so I will have to think about it a bit.

 

[beanieboy]

I might as well give you a question to ponder, while I'm pondering your answer:

Q: do you ever find some problems with what the bible says, and what you believe or understand?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Thanks again, Knight.
And thank you for the references.
That's a pretty conplicated answer, so I will have to think about it a bit.

Let me give you a more simple answer....

Calvinism makes the claim that God predestined all events for all of time even down to the smallest detail. Every movement of every molecule, every thought and every action for all of history was predetermined in advance by God.

Yet the Bible is filled with stories describing mans rejection of God and God's will.

 

[beanieboy]

Let me give you a more simple answer....

Calvinism makes the claim that God predestined all events for all of time even down to the smallest detail. Every movement of every molecule, every thought and every action for all of history was predetermined in advance by God.

Yet the Bible is filled with stories describing mans rejection of God and God's will.

Do a lot of people hold a Calvinistic view? And if so, why did people come to that conclusion?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I might as well give you a question to ponder, while I'm pondering your answer:

Q: do you ever find some problems with what the bible says, and what you believe or understand?

Yes . . I do, yet less now than when I was a new Christian.

However, I have far more problems with the alternative.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Do a lot of people hold a Calvinistic view? And if so, why did people come to that conclusion?

Calvinism is rooted in Greek philosphy.

It can be traced and documented but I think the answer may be out of the scope of this thread. If you are really interested I can point you to some detailed information.

 

[beanieboy]

I would. I agree with your problems with it, and would like to figure out the origins, and how one could come to that conclusion.

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[beanieboy]

Yes . . I do, yet less now than when I was a new Christian.

However, I have far more problems with the alternative.

Can I ask what they are?

I was reading a book called Stealing Jesus, and the author talked about things it was hard to admit he had a problem with, like the virgin birth.

Because of the personal nature of the question, you have a "I'd rather not answer" option here.