ARCHIVE: Open Theism in Light of First John 3:20

NuMessJew

New member
'Originally posted by Knight
I was merely demonstrating that man cannot have a true free-will AND God have exhaustive foreknowledge all at the same time."

Not really! A model could exist where both are true. The mark of true intelligence is to hold these both in your mind at one time.

NuMessJew
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
NuMessJew,

First of all, what's with your handle? What does NuMessJew mean?

You said:
A model could exist where both [humanity's true free-will AND God's exhaustive foreknowledge] are true. The mark of true intelligence is to hold these both in your mind at one time.
I thoroughly agree.

Free will is self-evident. The question is, Can God have exhaustive foreknowledge at the same time? And if so, how?

My wife knows me so well that she foreknows (with some margin of error) how I will react to a wide variety of circumstances. (As humbling as it is to realize, we are not as complicated and mysterious as we fancy ourselves - we're not all that tough to predict.) And if my wife - who I doubt is divine - can foreknow relatively accurately what I'm going to do before I do it, then God can. And just because my wife knows me doesn't mean I don't have free will.

Now, suppose my wife could design my circumstances. Then she would be able to more or less predict everything that I did. And what if she could manage my circumstances such that what I predictably did funnelled me right into more of her designed circumstances? More gaps fill in. She's closing in on predicting everything.

And the result of this is not that if my wife organized all my circumstances she would predict everything I did. The result of this is that if my wife organized all my circumstances she would control everything I did. My free will choices and her plan would be the same.

Whoops! This doesn't answer the question I posed above! It suggests a model where it is possible for God to predestine every truly free human act.

Nihilo
 

NuMessJew

New member
Originally posted by Nihilo
NuMessJew,

First of all, what's with your handle? What does NuMessJew mean?

You said:I thoroughly agree.

Free will is self-evident. The question is, Can God have exhaustive foreknowledge at the same time? And if so, how?

My wife knows me so well that she foreknows (with some margin of error) how I will react to a wide variety of circumstances. (As humbling as it is to realize, we are not as complicated and mysterious as we fancy ourselves - we're not all that tough to predict.) And if my wife - who I doubt is divine - can foreknow relatively accurately what I'm going to do before I do it, then God can. And just because my wife knows me doesn't mean I don't have free will.

Now, suppose my wife could design my circumstances. Then she would be able to more or less predict everything that I did. And what if she could manage my circumstances such that what I predictably did funnelled me right into more of her designed circumstances? More gaps fill in. She's closing in on predicting everything.

And the result of this is not that if my wife organized all my circumstances she would predict everything I did. The result of this is that if my wife organized all my circumstances she would control everything I did. My free will choices and her plan would be the same.

Whoops! This doesn't answer the question I posed above! It suggests a model where it is possible for God to predestine every truly free human act.

Nihilo

Est, Posible! You are a good thinker.

NuMessJew
 
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