Can Christians Sin?

[OZOS]

There is nothing in the entire passage which even hints that John's words are not to be taken literally.

Do you not think that any sin a believer commits defiles him? Or do you sgree with SOZOS that a believer cannot sin? Do you not think that a believer should judge himself in regard to his behavior? Paul wrote the following to believers:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." (1 Cor.11:31-32).

Again, because you are prone to lying and deception, you ignore what people say and manufacture your own perversion. Because you take verses out of context from the Bible you do the same in regard to the fulness of the words of others. You ignore the difference between sin that is lawlessness and sin that is not of faith. They are not the same. One is in regard to behavior (violating the Law) and the other is in regard to unbelief. The context of John's words (not mine) are in regard to lawlessness, not unbelief.

1 Cor 11 is in regard to being judged by the body for getting drunk and eating all the food before others can eat, but you hate context, which is why you are, in fact, a pervert.

 

[OZOS]

OZOS why do you refuse to answer my question?:

If John thought that believers cannot sin why would he write the following words to believers?:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Do you deny that these words were written to believers?

I JUST answered you, you lying pile of crap.

 

[OZOS]

OZOS why do you refuse to answer my question?:

If John thought that believers cannot sin why would he write the following words to believers?:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Do you deny that these words were written to believers?

Already corrected your confusion.

Do you deny that these words were written to believers?

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 5:18
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When we look at the context of 1 John 1: 9 it is not difficult to understand that when John uses the pronouns "we" and "us" he can only be speaking of believers:

'That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life. For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ....If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:1-3, 9).

It is a perversion of the sSriptures to say that when John uses the pronouns "we"and "us" at 1 John 1:9 that the reference is to unbelievers.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS wrote: "already corrected your confusion."

So according to you the words addressed to little children are not written to believers but instead unbelievers:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous...I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 JN.2:1, 12).

According to your silly ideas unbelievers have had their sins forgiven.

 

[OZOS]

It is a perversion of the sSriptures to say that when John uses the pronouns "we"and "us" at 1 John 1:9 that the reference is to unbelievers.

That's not what was said. Your reading comprehension skills are as pathetic as your life. Look up the word "anyone" in the dictionary.

Did Jesus die for the sin of unbelief? Are you really that stupid?

Do you deny that these words were written to believers?

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 5:18
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

 

[OZOS]

OZOS wrote: "already corrected your confusion."

So according to you the words addressed to little children are not written to believers but instead unbelievers:

I never said that, liar. John is making a general statement concerning anyone who still has sin. Not everyone, to whom the letter is read, has yet to believe. The letter is addressed to believers concerning those who have yet to be cleansed. If not, then John has no reason to tell those who are still in darkness and still say they have no sin, to admit that they have sin and to be cleansed. Among the believers are those who are trying to deceive them concerning sin and that Jesus has come in the flesh. YOU need to learn to read an entire letter, but you are too immature to take the whole counsel of God's word.

"These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you."

You have repeatedly rejected these words of John, because it doesn't fit into your doctrine of demons, where you deny the once for all sacrifice of Jesus for all sin, of all men.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Zane Hodges write the following commentary on 1 John 3:9:

"'God's seed' is his nature, given to each believer at salvation (John 1:13; 2 Peter1;4). the point here is that the child partakes in the nature of his Parent...all sin is devilish (1 John 3:8); it does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature; God's seed, but the child of God cannot and does not sin...Sin is not, nor ever can be, anything but satanic. It can never spring from what a Christian truly is at the level of his regenerate being."

Hodges also wrote:

"The fact remains, however, that Christians do not experience the sinless lifre perfectly on this earth; hence, 1;8,10 remain true. the two ideas are not really incompatible . The Christian still experiences a genuine struggle with the flesh and overcomes its impulses only by the help of the Holy Spirit (c.f. Gal.5:16-26).

"Paul's thinking also conforms with this view.in his struggle with sin he was able to conclude, 'Now if what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.'( Rom.7:20). In this way Paul could perceive sin as not a real part of what he was at the most inward level of his being (Rom.7:25)"

John Wesley wrote:

"Whosoever is born of God - By living faith, whereby God is continually breathing spiritual life into his soul, and his soul is continually breathing out love and prayer to God, doth not commit sin. For the divine seed of loving faith abideth in him; and, so long as it doth, he cannot sin, because he is born of God - Is inwardly and universally changed."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS said: "I never said that, liar."

So you admit that the following words of John were written to believers:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Anyone with half a brain can understand that if John thought that believers cannot sin then he would havre no reason to tell them not to sin.

 

[OZOS]

No one cares what those men you worship think.

God's word is easily discerned by those who have the Spirit of God. You don't.

The Christian still experiences a genuine struggle with the flesh and overcomes its impulses only by the help of the Holy Spirit

The Bible does not teach that. It's made up, just like "God helps those who help themselves".

Paul's testimony about his struggle is a man in bondage to sin, and under the Law.

Hodges, like you, is a pervert.

The Bible actually contradicts the man you worship.

"For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."
"For he who has died has been freed from sin."

 

[OZOS]

So you admit that the following words of John were written to believers:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Anyone with half a brain can understand that if John thought that believers cannot sin then he would havre no reason to tell them not to sin.

The letter is written to believers concerning both believers and unbelievers. Those who are in the light and those who are walking in darkness. Those who have been cleansed from all sin, and those who say they have no sin. Those who claim that Jesus has come in the flesh, and those who claim He has not come in the flesh. Those who still have sin, and those who have been cleansed of all unrighteousness. Those who have been born of God and those who have not been born of God. There are people in YOUR church who are not born of God (YOU), and those who are. If someone wrote a letter to your pastor to read to the congregation, it would be written to a believer concerning both those who are believers and those who are not. Very simple, except to a prig, like you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS said: "I never said that, liar."

So you admit that the following words of John were written to believers:?

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Anyone with half a brain can understand that if John thought that believers cannot sin then he would hare no reason to tell them not to sin.

 

[OZOS]

OZOS said: "I never said that, liar."

So you admit that the following words of John were written to believers:?

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jn.2:1).

Learn to read, or shut the hell up, you moron.

John is not telling believers to "sin not". Believers are born of God, and those born of God do not and cannot sin. John is not double-minded, but YOU are. Just because you don't understand what John is saying, and to whom he is saying it about, is your problem. I understand John perfectly.

Again, the letter is written to believers about believers and unbelievers. You are confused because your brain is stuck in dung, not able to discern the difference between what is to you and what is for you. Obviously John believes that those who have not been born of God can "sin not" or he would not tell them they can "sin not". John turns his attention specifically towards those who have not been cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, the ones who have yet to be born of God.

1 John 1:9

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness “

To confess is to agree with God or to say the same as God would say concerning our sin. Just as the tax collector in the temple confessed he a was sinner asking for God's mercy, so do all those who know that they have sin that needs to be taken away. However, only God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 reaffirms verse 7. To be justified by faith we admit that we have in fact, sinned. Therefore, John proclaims that it is indeed Jesus who is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If Jesus has cleansed you, you cannot make yourself uncleansed! You were unrighteous because you were "in Adam", "in darkness", & "in the flesh". You had no ability to make yourself righteous apart from the cross. But, having now come to Christ, you have been cleansed and are "in Christ", "in the light", "in fellowship", & "in the Spirit"! You have been made righteous by the blood of Christ! How then do you suppose after having been made righteous, that you could make yourself unrighteous? You could never make yourself unrighteous or righteous to begin with. The fact is you can only be cleansed of all sin once! You can only be cleansed of unrighteousness once!

"For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness"

Jesus is not going to be crucified every time you think you need forgiveness. The unrighteous were made unrighteous by the offense of one man (Adam). The righteous are made righteous through faith in the obedience of One Man (Jesus).

You are EITHER righteous OR unrighteous. You cannot be both, and having been made righteous, you can never be made unrighteous. Therefore, 1 John 1:9 can only be speaking of those who have never been made righteous, not those who are the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor 5:21)

1 John 1:10

“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

John affirms that those who claim that they never sinned are calling God a liar, and Jesus is not in them. Again, John includes himself, so that those whom he is writing know that those who are going to be their teachers must affirm that they have sinned and that the sacrifice of Jesus is the only propitiation for sin, so they will not be seduced by those who have been deceiving them.

John has fully established his credibility with those he is writing. He now turns to his apostolic authority and no longer refers to “we” but “I” and his instructions on how they should proceed. His readers now know where they stand concerning what it was they had been told by the false teachers. To those who had been seduced into believing that Jesus had not come in the flesh and that they had no sin to be cleansed, John has revealed to them that they are still in darkness, and have yet to know Jesus as their Advocate. To others who have been cleansed from all sin, John is thankful, but to those who have not been cleansed, he addresses first. They are yet to be the children of God, yet John appeals to them as a father caring for his own.

1 John 2:1-2

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.”

Jesus fully satisfied (propitiated), by His once for all sacrifice, their sins. To be in Christ, is to be free from sin. To be in Christ is to have received forgiveness of all their sin (Col 1:14).

Jesus is the only One qualified as their Advocate. He is the only One who is “faithful & just” to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Having once been cleansed, they are to no longer have consciousness of sins (Heb 10:2). His sacrifice is wholly sufficient, not only for their sins, but the sins of the whole world, including those who had tried to deceive them.

Look again, dummy, at what John just said in the first sentence of chapter 2 verse 1.

“I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.”

John is clearly suggesting that sin will cease, and as they continue to read his letter it becomes obvious that it becomes a reality for those who are “born of God”. To “not sin”, does not come any other way than by having first come to their Advocate who cleanses them from all sin, gives them His life, and makes them the righteousness of God. They are now new creations, born of God, and His Seed (Jesus) abides in them.

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 5:18
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

 

[lightninboy]

Hi, Jerry Shugart, I'm happy to see you're still active. It's been 2007 or 2008 the last time we were together.

And this obviously low-class OZOS fellow, let me guess, he's Sozo with his name spelled backward in capitals. Gee, you'd think a guy would mature a little in 13 years.