Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

Derf

Well-known member
A brick wall has a really excellent excuse!


It really is beginning to feel like some sort of mental disorder. It's like no matter how many time you repeat the same exact point, it doesn't stick. There is this, "there is no such thing as objective truth, everything is a matter of opinion" default mentality that assumes that everything anyone says is stated from within that paradigm.
I'm not ready to go the "mental disorder" route, but I agree that @Gary K reverts to previously held positions even after one logically leads him away from them.

On the other hand, just repeating the same exact point isn't usually effective, unless you bring more evidence/scripture/explanation to the discussion. Yes, at some point you run out of other things to bring to the table. I know that makes you mad, and I know that causes you to start calling people names (because you've run out of logical ammunition), but it's a fact of life/theology/forums, and we all need to learn to control ourselves, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.[1Pe 3:15 ESV]
 

Derf

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Tell that to Gary.
Didn't I just do that? Are you thinking he only reads those lines that are specifically addressed to him? Dont treat him like a dunce, just like none of us want to be treated like dunces, in spite of some amount of dunceness in all of us.

I'm certainly not innocent of getting frustrated--with lots of posters--but let's help each other past our blindspots. Like this:
 

JudgeRightly

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Didn't I just do that?

Where?

Are you thinking he only reads those lines that are specifically addressed to him?

I would hope he reads more, but so far, he's given a pretty good indication that he doesn't care what other people say, so to answer your question, I doubt he does.

Dont treat him like a dunce,

I treat him how he behaves.

just like none of us want to be treated like dunces, in spite of some amount of dunceness in all of us.

If I'm acting like a dunce, I fully expect and want to be treated like a dunce.
 

Derf

Well-known member
You have to click on it to see my text.
I would hope he reads more, but so far, he's given a pretty good indication that he doesn't care what other people say, so to answer your question, I doubt he does.
That may be true, but it shows you understood what I had written, and didn't need to ask "Where?"
I treat him how he behaves.
And he thinks he's treating you and @Clete, etc., how you all behave.
If I'm acting like a dunce, I fully expect and want to be treated like a dunce.
Noted. But you don't usually throw a fit and say you'll never post again...every couple of days.
 

JudgeRightly

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You have to click on it to see my text.

That comment was directed at Clete, no?

Why would Gary take to heart something not directed at him?
 

Clete

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I'm not ready to go the "mental disorder" route, but I agree that @Gary K reverts to previously held positions even after one logically leads him away from them.

On the other hand, just repeating the same exact point isn't usually effective, unless you bring more evidence/scripture/explanation to the discussion. Yes, at some point you run out of other things to bring to the table. I know that makes you mad, and I know that causes you to start calling people names (because you've run out of logical ammunition), but it's a fact of life/theology/forums, and we all need to learn to control ourselves, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.[1Pe 3:15 ESV]
That is not the reason I call people names.

I call people names because they've demonstrated that the shoe fits. There's actually a very consistent and readily apparent progression with the way I deal with people that disagree with me. Telling them that something they've said is stupid comes long before insults that are directly personal. The latter has to be earned and doesn't come until they have aggressively exhausted my patience. There are those that I've repeated myself until I think I'm literally blue in the face and I just keep doing so for as long as they continue to respond with what even feels like an actual argument. It really depends a lot on their attitude and whether or not their being hypocrites.

Lately, however, blatant hypocrisy just gets the discussion ended abruptly, as you learned last week. It gets me angry to a level that just isn't worth continuing for even one more syllable.
 

Derf

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That is not the reason I call people names.
Maybe you don't think so, but that's exactly the impression you give those you disagree with.
I call people names because they've demonstrated that the shoe fits. There's actually a very consistent and readily apparent progression with the way I deal with people that disagree with me. Telling them that something they've said is stupid comes long before insults that are directly personal.
"Long"? Do you understand what the word means?
The latter has to be earned and doesn't come until they have aggressively exhausted my patience.
Which is soooo long-suffering!
There are those that I've repeated myself until I think I'm literally blue in the face and I just keep doing so for as long as they continue to respond with what even feels like an actual argument.
Why oh why would you think YOUR repetitiousness would be more effective against them than theirs is against you??

It really depends a lot on their attitude and whether or not their being hypocrites.
Which you are somehow more competent to judge? I don't see how.
Lately, however, blatant hypocrisy just gets the discussion ended abruptly, as you learned last week. It gets me angry to a level that just isn't worth continuing for even one more syllable.
And that's why I say you are being driven into poor argumentation tactics...because you let others set your tone.
 

Clete

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Maybe you don't think so, but that's exactly the impression you give those you disagree with.
I DO NOT care about what your impression of me is.

"Long"? Do you understand what the word means?
Yes.

Which is soooo long-suffering!
You're getting really close to ending the discussion twice in less than a week. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you seem to be trying just as hard to remove the doubt.

Why oh why would you think YOUR repetitiousness would be more effective against them than theirs is against you??
Why is it that people cannot seem to understand that I am not doing this for anyone's benefit other than my own?

Which you are somehow more competent to judge? I don't see how.
I do not care anything about what you can or cannot see. I didn't ask your opinion and couldn't care less about whether or not you approve of my methods.

And that's why I say you are being driven into poor argumentation tactics...because you let others set your tone.
That's a laugh!

Let me guess, you'd have me do what, treat everyone as though they're as intelligent, honest and substantive as they want to pretend they are, right?

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.
 

Derf

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I DO NOT care about what your impression of me is.
Yet you should care, since you are an ambassador of Christ.
Yes.


You're getting really close to ending the discussion twice in less than a week. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you seem to be trying just as hard to remove the doubt.


Why is it that people cannot seem to understand that I am not doing this for anyone's benefit other than my own?
Then you are fooling yourself, and teaching others to fool themselves.
I do not care anything about what you can or cannot see. I didn't ask your opinion and couldn't care less about whether or not you approve of my methods.
I got that. Yet you do respond. Which means there's hope for you.
That's a laugh!

Let me guess, you'd have me do what, treat everyone as though they're as intelligent, honest and substantive as they want to pretend they are, right?
Maybe treat brothers in Christ as if you love them as Christ does.
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.
I'm not just doing this for myself (though I hope to learn some things in the process)...I'm hoping to impact believers and non-believers positively for Christ. You get to decide whether you take it positively or not.
 

Clete

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Maybe treat brothers in Christ as if you love them as Christ does.
I do precisely that.

I'm not just doing this for myself (though I hope to learn some things in the process)...I'm hoping to impact believers and non-believers positively for Christ. You get to decide whether you take it positively or not.
You do what you want for whatever reasons you choose and I will do the same.
 

CabinetMaker

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The difference being that the two are two different but related topics. There are all sorts of things that are wrong (i.e. immoral) not all of them are criminal in nature. You can tell a lie to your spouse about where you were last night. That is immoral but it isn't a crime. If where you were last night was raping, murdering and eating young boys, then that is a crime that you should be executed for (i.e. upon conviction, of course).
I am not sure that the difference between immoral and criminal is actually important to God. Adultery was criminal for a significant portion of history. However, Jesus said that looking at a woman with lust in your eyes was equally criminal, though we would most likely consider it immoral. We are called to be holy, neither immoral nor criminal


No one cares whether you agree or not. WHY don't you agree?

Why is it so impossible to get people to make an argument on this website?
I have made my arguments. Your response is "Who care." Obviously not you.


You are completely stupid.
Your ad hominem is noted.

I've been around for a long time. I've been exposed to and involved with Bob Enyart's ministry for over thirty years and you are the first and ONLY person on planet Earth that has or will ever make such a mindlessly idiotic statement about Bob's teaching. It is exactly the opposite of the truth. Precisely 180° out of phase.

The above two quoted sentences, by the way, for everyone who might be reading this post, is a terrific example of an actual ad hominem. CM has rejected anything that the article I linked to might say not on the basis of what it says but on a completely baseless, utterly false and emotionally charged accusation. (For those who are slow - the point is the "insult" and "ad hominem" are NOT synonyms.
Actually, this is NOT an ad hominem against Bob. Bob believed that God spoke in riddles and hid His True meaning and that a special code was required to decipher that Truth. Bob wrote a whole book about it, one that I read. It is called "The lot." I do not believe that God speaks in riddles nor hides His meaning in terms of salvation. I believe that God speaks VERY clearly about that and if we have questions, God sent a Helper. What happened to to 2,000 years of humanity that dies without knowing Bob's code? All condemned? Convince I'm wrong.


That's stupidity. By that idiotic standard, neither have I or anyone else on this website.
Your assertion is noted.


You are impossible to talk too. You're just making things up to suit your feelings.
Your ad hominem is noted.


I will not be judged AT ALL (not in the manner you mean it here)! Christ was judged in my stead! He was accused, convicted and executed all on my behalf.
Yet the scripture I posted says something different.



Complete stupidity.
Your ad hominem is noted.

You are not condemned apart from sin! Romans 7:9
As you stated above, you are not to be judged because you know Christ as your savior and He has paid the price for you sins. Those who believe are not condemned, It is not acts that save us, it is faith. Question: If you truly know Jesus as your savior, are you going to continue to do sinful things?


Yes, a direction given to the Twelve who taught the Law to Israel. Matthew 10:23, Acts 21:20, Galatians 2:7-9, and elsewhere.
So what is your job? What is your roll in the Body of Christ?


Israel has only been set aside temporarily. God will return to Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. While there are many commonalities between the two, some of which you allude to above, it doesn't mean that we've replaced Israel outright. The Body of Christ is a separate thing entirely from Israel.
I don't think God is done with Israel, but I do not believe that Israel plays a part in the salvation of men any more.


Saying it doesn't make it so.
It is a statement of faith. I have not seen anything presented here that has caused me to question that belief.


Paul disagrees.

I agree with Paul.
Paul does not disagree. Put Paul knows that those who continue is a sinful life do not truly know Jesus as their Savior. You can't just say you believe and continue with sin. You can't act saved and be saved. Our actions do not bring salvation. Instead, our actions reveal our faith in Christ.


You are conflating two different topics but there's no way you could defend even this much of your doctrine in any consistent manner.[/quote Not at all. I was listening to a teacher on KLOV radio a number of years ago and they pointed this out. Laws do not save, they can only punish. A law, any law, is only as effective to the degree that you fear the punishment.

Leaving criminal justice aside for a moment, is it a sin to murder? Is it a sin to rape? Is it a sin to have sex with your neighbor's wife? Is it a sin to molest children? Is it a sin to have sex with animals? Is it a sin to commit sodomy?

How about lesser sins....

Is it a sin to steal your neighbor's property?
Is it a sin to beat your neighbor with a bat for no reason (i.e. not in self-defense but just because you felt like it)?
Is it a sin to con old women out of their life's savings?

Lesser still...

Is it a sin to covet?

WHY?
These are all sins under the law. Since the law is me teacher, I know that doing these things is NOT pleasing to God and I should avoid them. If there are others partaking of these things, then I should take appropriate actions. Why? Because this is God's moral code and I firmly believe that God understand morality far better than I so I follow Him.

It isn't anyone's charge to punish sin other than God. It is, however, the government's charge to punish CRIME!

Do you understand what the difference is?
Is homosexuality a crime? By what standard?


No, CM, you are flatly wrong. It was not the Old covenant that gave authority to men to punish crime. That authority was delegated by God to man immediately after the Flood. That was LONG before what you think of as the Old Covenant was around. A very long time.
None the less, Jesus's death on the cross completed the Old Covenant and ushered in the New Covenant.


Nothing else but morality can be justly legislated.

The purpose of the criminal justice system is precisely the prohibition of immoral civic behavior.
As I pointed out, legislating morals doesn't work because laws do not change a persons heart and God looks at what is in our hearts, not our actions. Just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line between criminal and immoral? (Keep in mind, our government IS God's choice for us.)


By "unacceptable" read "immoral".[/quote Tomato, tomahto.

What other behavior would be unacceptable other than immoral behavior? No one is going to object to moral behavior, right?
Imoral by whos standards? Gods or the government the wields Gods power?


NO THEY DON'T!!!!

I mean, they do have the death penalty for it but they DO NOT put hardly anyone to death for homosexuality in Muslim countries. Muslim countries have fewer homos than they have evangelical Christians! (Christian evangelism is another capital crime in a lot of Muslim countries).
Muslim countries have no fewer homosexuals than any other country, they just appear to have fewer because the ones that come out, are killed. They will even put to death foreign citizens who are homosexuals. But that is what God wants so they are closer to Gods will than we are. Right?

Capital punishment works!
It controls an action, not morality. Acts and thoughts are not the same and God looks at our thoughts to know where our heart truly lies..


HA!

You're a flat out fool! Do you just believe anything that pops into your head and then state it as fact?
If you would be put to death for being a homosexual, would you EVER admit to anybody that you were homosexual? How can you accurately count people who don't want to be recognized. I think you are under informed here.


No. This implies that God Himself is unjust by presupposing the notion that homos are "born that way", which is completely false. Homos are made by other homos when they molest young children (usually between the ages of 5 and 8 years old and often their own family members, by the way).
Can you tell me the date and time that came out as straight? I love women. I would love to fool around with a lot of different women. I was just born that way. Like homosexuals, I have a choice to make: slave to my flesh or surrender to God. I chose to surrender to God and He changed my heart so that instead of looking at women as objects of lust, I now see them as a creations of God to be respected as such.


You're just a fountain of meaningless cliche that literally thousands of years of history proves false tens of thousands of times over.
No, I just learned scripture from a different Teacher that I believe is much closer to what God intends. And your ad hominem is noted

Know this. You DO believe that God is unjust.
Not even a little bit.
 
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CabinetMaker

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And?



No one cares.

Make an argument.



No one said you had to.

What you should accept is what the Bible teaches. Bob taught that.



Whatever that's supposed to mean...



Saying someone deserves death for their actions is by definition calling for them to be put to death for their actions.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have said they deserve death.



Paul said, quote:

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

Everyone should be subject to the authorities.

There is no authority except from God.

The authorities that exist are appointed by God. (That is to say, the governments themselves, not the people in the governments.)

THEREFORE:

Whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God.

Those who resist bring judgement upon themselves.

Rulers are a terror to those who work evil.

The authorities are God's ministers to you for good.

If you do evil, be afraid.

FOR:

He does not bear THE SWORD in vain.

FOR:

He is God's minister to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

THEREFORE:

We must be subject, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.

Did you catch that?

The authorities, aka governments, do not bear the sword in vain.

Again, they do not bear THE SWORD in vain.

A sword is not used for beating people, Cab.

It's used for killing.

Paul is endorsing a government's use of the death penalty.



Only if you're a hypocrite!

If you're not a hypocrite, then that measure cannot be used against you!

That's what it means to not be a hypocrite, Cabinet!



Yes.

See: {definition of hypocrite}



They're condemned for their sin of not repenting of their rebellion against God.

Repenting of their rebellion against God is tantamount to, if not synonymous with believing that God will save them from their sins if they put their trust in Him, generally speaking.



No one cares.

Make an argument.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



It's very clear direction indeed..... To His disciples, not to you.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Amen.

Jesus just spent 40 days teaching them the things pertaining to the coming KINGDOM of God.

So it makes sense that He would tell THEM (not you) to go and spread what He taught them.



To His disciples.



Redemption from what?



Nope. That was Paul, not Jesus.



Which church?

There are two of them.



No one cares. Make an argument.



Saying it doesn't make it so, and you have been given scripture that says otherwise. Your disagreement is with Scripture.

Here it is again, in case you've forgotten:

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— . . .



*moot



Saying it doesn't make it so.

And Paul says otherwise:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.



A Covenant is a kind of law.

No one today is under the New Covenant. That includes you.

And yes, those under the New Covenant were indeed bound by the law.

As Paul points out:

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”



No one said it was.

That responsibility belongs solely to the government, and by extension, those who act under it's authority.



You should be condemning evil, and be calling for justice.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



Yes, it does.



There are 5 commands within the Ten Commandments that are the basis for ANY righteous justice system. Four of them are for crimes, and the fifth is for determining motive, but isn't a law against a crime in and of itself.



Yes, they do, despite what the mainstream media tells you.



Thanks for directly contradicting what you just said.



The point is not to "change their morality."

The point of a law is to deter criminals from acting out their criminal desires.

And used properly, it is a tutor to bring men to Christ, to make them recognize that they are in need of a new heart.



Supra, re: half of the Ten Commandments



Paul disagrees with you.

Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

So does Solomon, the wisest man to have ever lived, even in his fallen state:

Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.



Jesus cares about what is good and just.
Interesting. So the government derives its authority from God so we are to follow the government. The Government ordered COVID injections. Bob disobeyed the government and died of COVID. Since Bob disobeyed The government and, hence, disobeyed God, God was justly punishing Bob for Disobeying him. True or false.
 

JudgeRightly

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Interesting. So the government derives its authority from God so we are to follow the government.

Only when it does not command evil.

This:
But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

Is not in opposition to this:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

For:
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The Government ordered COVID injections.

False.

Bob disobeyed the government

False.

and died of COVID.

True.

Since Bob disobeyed The government

This premise is false.

and, hence, disobeyed God,

This premise is false.

God was justly punishing Bob for Disobeying him. True or false.

False, because your starting premises are false.

Also, your unstated assumption that because God has used disease and other things to punish His people in the past, thus every disease or natural disaster or lightning strike is God's wrath upon men, is also false. God's wrath is not thwarted by Benjamin Franklin's invention of the lightning rod, nor by the invention of vaccines or medicines, nor by good infrastructure.

Bob simply fell within the range of those who would be affected most by the virus, and had other conditions that exacerbated his illness.
 

Clete

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Actually, this is NOT an ad hominem against Bob. Bob believed that God spoke in riddles and hid His True meaning and that a special code was required to decipher that Truth. Bob wrote a whole book about it, one that I read. It is called "The lot." I do not believe that God speaks in riddles nor hides His meaning in terms of salvation. I believe that God speaks VERY clearly about that and if we have questions, God sent a Helper. What happened to to 2,000 years of humanity that dies without knowing Bob's code? All condemned? Convince I'm wrong.
You are a liar - period.

There is no chance whatsoever that you didn't know that every syllable of this was an outright intention lie and the exact opposite of what Bob taught. You aught to be ashamed and embarrassed but instead you'll double down.


Good bye!
 

CabinetMaker

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You are a liar - period.

There is no chance whatsoever that you didn't know that every syllable of this was an outright intention lie and the exact opposite of what Bob taught. You aught to be ashamed and embarrassed but instead you'll double down.


Good bye!
Your ad hominem is duels noted.
 

CabinetMaker

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Only when it does not command evil.

This:
But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

Is not in opposition to this:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

For:
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.



False.



False.



True.



This premise is false.



This premise is false.



False, because your starting premises are false.

Also, your unstated assumption that because God has used disease and other things to punish His people in the past, thus every disease or natural disaster or lightning strike is God's wrath upon men, is also false. God's wrath is not thwarted by Benjamin Franklin's invention of the lightning rod, nor by the invention of vaccines or medicines, nor by good infrastructure.

Bob simply fell within the range of those who would be affected most by the virus, and had other conditions that exacerbated his illness.
Agreed. My starting premise was incorrect.

Interestingly, there was another virus that spread through out the world a couple of decades ago that many Christians claimed was Gods just punishment for the homosexuals of the world. But it is a valid point, under the New Covenant, does God send “plagues” to us?
 

JudgeRightly

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Interestingly, there was another virus that spread through out the world a couple of decades ago that many Christians claimed was Gods just punishment for the homosexuals of the world.

Of course it wasn't.

But it is a valid point, under the New Covenant,

Another false premise.

The New Covenant was between God and Israel. It is not in effect today.

does God send “plagues” to us?

Not today, no.

Plagues are a result (a consequence, if you will) of Adam's sin, and their severity is affected by the actions of the men they affect. But they are not (directly) a punishment from God.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 
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