More Complications in Legalization of Marijuana - deadly fake pot

Nazaroo

New member
Once pot smoking gets entrenched into "normal" society's habits,
it will leave millions of idiots vulnerable to secondary scams that can be fatal
or act as conduits for other dangerous harmful drugs.







K2 synthetic pot: New York targets drug that kills addicts
As Canada moves to legalize marijuana, a cheap copycat is proving fatal in U.S.

By Matt Kwong, CBC News
Posted: Nov 08, 2015 5:00 AM ET
Last Updated: Nov 08, 2015 8:07 AM ET

k2-synthetic-pot.jpg
Synthetic marijuana or K2 herbal-chemical mixes contain plant material that is sprayed with toxic chemicals. It has been sold in convenience stores in the New York area as well as some head shops in parts of northern Alberta. (DrugAbuse.gov)


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At Lexington Avenue and 125th Street West, the corner about which Lou Reed sang of scoring heroin in 1960s New York, dealers today croon about a new cheap high: K2.
Stay there long enough and you'll hear them, says Fabe, a panhandler in East Harlem who says he once bought a K2 joint from a pedlar for $3.
"They come by and they'll be like, 'Yo, you got that K2? You got K2?'" he says, imitating the pitchmen he encounters almost daily selling joints and $10 baggies of the "synthetic marijuana."
yomar-dortalin-and-fabe-talk-about-k2.JPG
Yomar Dortalatin, 37, in the red checkered shirt, and Fabe, 46, a homeless man in East Harlem, with his back to the camera, say they have tried K2, but decided it was not for them after 'bugging out' on it. (Matt Kwong/CBC)

It's a familiar drug to Canadians in parts of northern Alberta as well. Oil workers have reportedly lit up the herbal narcotic for years in order to mimic the mind-altering effects of weed, without having to worry about failing urine tests designed to detect cannabis.
The chemical-herbal mixes are designed to reproduce the effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).
"I was addicted from that very first toke," Carmen Caldwell, a K2 addict and former oil-patch supervisor, told CBC Radio's The Current in October, speaking from Edmonton. "I could get high and still piss clean."

Unlike marijuana, K2 can cause seizures, vomiting, violent mood swings and organ damage. Due to manufacturers' ever-changing chemical recipes, its Canadian legal status remains hazy. The lethal drug, which resembles potpourri, involves psychoactive chemicals produced in China and sprayed on dried plant material.
As Canada braces for a shift toward legalizing marijuana after a change in government to the Liberal Party, New York City is toughening laws against synthetics and releasing PSA ads targeting youths who may be attracted to the product's flavours and colourful packaging.
K2 continues to be marketed as "legal weed" or "smokeable herbal incense" in shops. It goes by other names on the street — Spice, Zinger, Crazy Clown, Yucatan Fire, Skunk, Moon Rocks.
wdr-620-synthetic-marijuana.jpg
K2 is labelled with many other names, including Spice, Zinger, Crazy Clown, Yucatan Fire, Skunk and Moon Rocks. In 2013, police alleged this artificial pot product called IZMS was sold in Hamilton, Ont., and landed a man in hospital. (CBC)

New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio calls it "poison." In October the city agreed to outlaw its sale and production, a move Canadian law enforcement may be watching closely as they try to crack down on the drug's use in Alberta.
Following alarming rates of overdoses, which U.S. attorney Preet Bharara declared a "public health crisis," de Blasio signed three bills to criminalize the sale of synthetic pot.
Selling or producing K2 was previously only considered a health code violation in New York state, punishable with a $250 fine. Under the new laws, offenders can be sentenced to a year in jail and fined up to $50,000. Shops could also be shut down.
Canada is monitoring the spread of synthetic cannabis use, according to the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, but "clusters of harm" have arisen in Alberta.
Two St. Albert teens were hospitalized in 2013 after overdosing on synthetics. In 2011, Calgary police raided seven stores selling the chemical-herbal mixes.
The problem has not been as intense as it is in the U.S., says Matthew Young, a senior researcher and policy analyst with the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse in Ottawa.
But regulation is tricky because the chemical makeup changes frequently.
"There are over 130 of these compounds and there are new ones appearing at a fairly rapid rate," Young said. "When people say it's 'legal,' people automatically assume it's gone through some kind of quality control. But some of these compounds aren't covered by existing legislation because how do you control something that is yet to exist?"
New York's legislation is not intended to punish users, but the merchants who are selling to addicts and turning homeless people into zombies.
"You know who's smoking because they're bugging out," said Yomar Dortalatin, who sleeps on the streets. "They take a pull. They bug out. They fall down."
fabe-and-k2.JPG
Fabe, 46, a homeless man in East Harlem, says he once took two or three pulls from a K2 joint, but discarded it. (Matt Kwong/CBC)

Following de Blasio's announcement, the colourful $10 foil packages quickly disappeared from the shelves of bodegas and convenience stores in East Harlem.
"I've seen it cut down dramatically within the last month or so. My friend died two days ago smoking that ****. He took a few pulls, fell asleep and died," said Dave Waller, who was soliciting for spare change near the track for the 4-5-6 train.
"You see guys hallucinating, kicking cars while high on that ****. I saw a guy walking up, his head up, just spitting, and it would come down, hit his face, and he'd keep spitting."
The potent, deadly cannabinoid sent 2,300 people to emergency rooms in New York state in August and September alone.
'It will mess up your life'

Young said Canada does not have reliable records on synthetics overdoses, but Health Canada issued a warning in August 2013 advising people not to purchase the products, which the agency acknowledged are "available for sale at some convenience stores, specialty tobacco stores and head shops."
The Centers for Disease Control logged 3,572 calls across the U.S. related to synthetics in the first five months of this year, up 229 per cent from the same period last year. In April there was a spike of 15 deaths.
Overdoses are especially high in New York state and New Jersey, where 22-year-old recovering K2 addict Zack Ellis lives.
"Each batch is different. Different chemicals, different products, different labels," he said from a rooming house in Dover, N.J. "Different flavours, too. I get mine as mango."
Ellis began smoking K2 around 2011, after he left the Jamesburg juvenile jail and wanted alternatives to weed so he could pass mandated urine tests. He quickly became addicted, and decided to seek treatment when he woke up in a hospital in July.
"I had took like three or four pulls, started getting dizzy and passed out on the concrete; cracked my nose," he said. "I realized if I keep doing this, I'm going to end up dead."
Ellis, who suffers from PTSD and bipolar disorder, now has a mental-health counsellor and has cut his K2 consumption to about two joints a week, down from as many as 11 a day.
He confesses that although K2 is sometimes all he thinks about all day, "I'm glad to see they're banning it."
"It will mess up your life. It messed up mine," he said. "I just hope I can stop."


 

patrick jane

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K2 has been around nearly 7 years or more. They raided and closed shops in St.Louis that sold it and arrested the owners. Most good potheads know better than to use that stuff, or bath salts.
 
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TomO

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:AMR: Ummm....The K2 garbage was created/marketed as a way to bypass current prohibition.
To suggest that legalization/decriminalization of actual marijuana will in some way increase the synthetic market is just foolish.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Since the legalization of dope here in WA State, the amount of 911/SFD (Seattle Fire Dept.) medic calls have skyrocketed here in Seattle because of people smoking the supposed harmless drug.

Your tax dollars at work.
 

Nazaroo

New member
:AMR: Ummm....The K2 garbage was created/marketed as a way to bypass current prohibition.
To suggest that legalization/decriminalization of actual marijuana will in some way increase the synthetic market is just foolish.


Not necessarily foolish.

When legalization will inevitably expand the market and demand by 100 fold,
this also increases the market for counterfeit products automatically.

Its about changing the market size.

The public is already about as well-educated in the West on marijuana as it can be expected to be.

Thus, increasing the market size will simply increase also the market for scams, counterfeits, 'cut' and fake products.

This is simple logic.

For instance now that alcohol is legal, its the most widely abused and dangerous drug.
Alcohol causes more deaths than firearms.

Making it legal doesn't stop the illegal manufacture and substitution of alcohol with cheaper substitutes, often leading to death.
For instance, the various mafias have their own suppliers of alcohol just like they do for illegal restaurant meats.


Legalizing marijuana will lead to a similar expansion of the markets,
and therefore must inevitably lead to more criminal activity and exploitation by fraud.
 

Nazaroo

New member
It would be a better idea to ban alcohol than pot. It would be better to curb doctors prescribing pharmaceuticals than ban pot.

Agreed.

Alcohol is a dangerous industrial solvent, and needs heavy regulation,
along with banning its recreational abuse.
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
Not necessarily foolish.

When legalization will inevitably expand the market and demand by 100 fold,
this also increases the market for counterfeit products automatically.

Its about changing the market size.

The public is already about as well-educated in the West on marijuana as it can be expected to be.

Thus, increasing the market size will simply increase also the market for scams, counterfeits, 'cut' and fake products.

This is simple logic.

For instance now that alcohol is legal, its the most widely abused and dangerous drug.
Alcohol causes more deaths than firearms.

Making it legal doesn't stop the illegal manufacture and substitution of alcohol with cheaper substitutes, often leading to death.
For instance, the various mafias have their own suppliers of alcohol just like they do for illegal restaurant meats.


Legalizing marijuana will lead to a similar expansion of the markets,
and therefore must inevitably lead to more criminal activity and exploitation by fraud.


No...just...no. :doh:

But...I've just realized I don't care enough about this to argue about it. Seems to be alot of things falling into this category anymore.

I concede...K2 for everybody! :devil:
 

User Name

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Since the legalization of dope here in WA State, the amount of 911/SFD (Seattle Fire Dept.) medic calls have skyrocketed here in Seattle because of people smoking the supposed harmless drug.

Your tax dollars at work.

How many calls do medics get because of people drinking the supposed harmless drug alcohol?
 

Nazaroo

New member
What makes you think that legalization will increase "demand by 100 fold"?

because with legalization you can expand your marketing to reach
the majority of law abiding citizens who would not otherwise risk involvement.

Also, just the act of legalization will make a strong suggestion to many people
who currently believe it is a dangerous gateway drug and/or would inevitably involve criminal association.

Basically when you legalize you announce with authority (deserved or not) that its safe for recreational use.

This is precisely what has happened with prostitution in countries like Germany etc.

Just the act of legalization has given a tacit permission and presumption of safety,
even when the real statistics show that prostitution continues to be based on
the exploitation of women and children, and causes the spread of venereal disease.

Similarly, legalization of alcohol continues to cause unnecessary deaths,
in spite of widespread education on proper 'use' and DUI risks.



Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink.3



Since marijuana is a similar intoxicating drug in its recreational use and potential popularity,
we can expect that a similar rise in DUI statistics will result if legalization is allowed.

That is, more users means more DUI and more deaths.
As an illegal drug marijuana has an almost insignificant impact on highway deaths.
The same cannot be guaranteed if it is freely available and fully legal, and
treated by the public the way alcohol is.

Even if marijuana users are currently a small and 'special' population not as prone
to abuse and operation of vehicles or machinery, that 'lucky' claim / record
cannot possibly hold once the drug is openly and freely used the way alcohol is,
by a much larger general population at large.

In other words, once more than hippies and teens/university students use it,
you can expect a lot more stupid industrial accidents caused by "recreational use".

Because marijuana users will no longer be a 'special class' with better scores
under the 'responsible use' category.
 

User Name

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What makes you think that legalization will increase "demand by 100 fold"?

because with legalization you can expand your marketing to reach
the majority of law abiding citizens who would not otherwise risk involvement.

According to the NIH, there are an estimated 19.8 million past-month users of marijuana in the USA. If my calculations are correct, a 100 fold increase would mean that there would be 1.98 billion marijuana users in a total population of only 320 million people. Are you sure you don't want to revise your estimate?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Since the legalization of dope here in WA State, the amount of 911/SFD (Seattle Fire Dept.) medic calls have skyrocketed here in Seattle because of people smoking the supposed harmless drug.

Your tax dollars at work.


How many calls do medics get because of people drinking the supposed harmless drug alcohol?

Alcohol is harmless (and actually beneficial in many ways) as long as it's not abused. Public intoxication laws and restriction on sales need to be reinstated.

To answer your question: Very few, as drunks usually sleep off their drunken stupor.

Other side of Cannabis Movie Trailer
 

Nazaroo

New member
According to the NIH, there are an estimated 19.8 million past-month users of marijuana in the USA. If my calculations are correct, a 100 fold increase would mean that there would be 1.98 billion marijuana users in a total population of only 320 million people. Are you sure you don't want to revise your estimate?

its a figure of speech.

But lets say your number is accurate ...

20 million current pot smokers out of 320 million 'mericans'.


Thats 1 in 16 ? Do you really believe that?


My expression was meant to warn of an order of magnitude in the increase of users.

Lets say 2 or even 4 out of 16 (exclude children, old people, retards, the medicated, cripples etc).

That would effectively double or quadruple the number of industrial or car accidents that
are pot related.

Who is going to pay for that mistake?
Besides mothers of children run over or shot as collateral damage in drug turf wars I mean.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
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How many calls do medics get because of people drinking the supposed harmless drug alcohol?

Very few, as drunks usually sleep off their drunken stupor.

Except when they're driving, or committing domestic violence, or committing any number of other offenses which drunks are known do in the course of their drunkenness. An article published in the Journal of Addictive Behaviors reported that “alcohol is clearly the drug with the most evidence to support a direct intoxication-violence relationship.”
 

User Name

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Banned
lets say your number is accurate ...

20 million current pot smokers out of 320 million 'mericans'.


Thats 1 in 16 ? Do you really believe that?

The stated number is an estimate by the National Institutes of Health of "past-month users" of marijuana. It's probably a fairly accurate estimate, but I suppose the actual number could be higher.

its a figure of speech...My expression was meant to warn of an order of magnitude in the increase of users.

Is "order of magnitude" also a figure of speech?
 

Nazaroo

New member
Is "order of magnitude" also a figure of speech?

No, its a mathematical term indicating a change in size that is overpowering in
relation to the size of the original quantity.

For instance, a change from n^1 to n^2 is a change in order of magnitude.
 

relaff

New member
The stated number is an estimate by the National Institutes of Health of "past-month users" of marijuana. It's probably a fairly accurate estimate, but I suppose the actual number could be higher.

I'd guess here in CO its higher ;-) I'm not a big fan of it and I think there is a big danger of DUI and people playing pranks on others etc.

One thing that really disturbs me is the was the legalization here was done. It's one thing to decriminalize use or perhaps use it medically and personally I don't really care what people do in there homes to themselves. But it's a new industry here promoting the stuff. And the worst thing is, that kids see it and grow up thinking it normal, harmless and perhaps even cool to do. That's really sad.
 
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