Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Look who is talking. You continually make false statements AND you have created a false Christ.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Look who is talking. You continually make false statements AND you have created a false Christ.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
The proof of Jesus’ divinity is in the last two chapters of the book of Revelation. According to Revelation 21:6-7, Almighty God reveals himself to us in plain terms: “And he said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.’”
But then, in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:
And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”
Jesus is God
Jesus refers to himself with the divine name I am in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy!
Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). This is in sharp contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: “The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . ” (cf. Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Only God possesses this kind of authority.
Jesus is referred to as “equal” with God by both John and Paul. In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man (cf. Phil. 2:6-10). Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.
Jesus is referred to in the New Testament with the title Lord as it is uniquely applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament. Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament (cf. Ex. 20:10; see also Is. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, quoted both in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).
Jesus is God.
John 1:1-3: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”
Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!
But then, in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:
And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”
Jesus is God
Jesus refers to himself with the divine name I am in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy!
Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). This is in sharp contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: “The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . ” (cf. Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Only God possesses this kind of authority.
Jesus is referred to as “equal” with God by both John and Paul. In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man (cf. Phil. 2:6-10). Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.
Jesus is referred to in the New Testament with the title Lord as it is uniquely applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament. Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament (cf. Ex. 20:10; see also Is. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, quoted both in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).
Jesus is God.
John 1:1-3: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”
Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!
Nanja
Well-known member
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Hey America, Jesus IS God
Nanja
Well-known member
Absolutely Brother ! That Man would be endowed with all the Spiritual Qualities, Perfections and Power of God Himself; exhibiting the Characteristics and Likeness of God flawlessly: Being endued with all Power and Authority as God Himself; having the Power to forgive sin, or to cast into hell !
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Jesus
NWL
Active member
As you keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims. It’s insane that people such as yourself actually believe you have the truth yet refuse to answer basic questions and evidence your own beliefs.
(Proverbs 18L2) “..Anyone stupid finds no delight in discernment, except that his heart should uncover itself..”
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Reasoning with dishonest people like you is impossible.
You ask for Biblical evidence: Tons of it has been provided.
Historical and authoritative texts have also been provided.
You turn a blind eye to the proof and then ask for proof. That is total dishonesty.
You don't deserve all the effort that has been put into answering your questions.
Last edited:
NWL
Active member
Again, you make a lot of assertions and claims but never back anything up.
When you clam I am dishonest please explain where I have been and how.
When you say I'm a liar please show where I have lied and explain how.
What proof have I turned a blind eye to?
Please stop asserting things and come to the realization that to try and convince or ven have an intelligent discussion with people you need to provide evidence behind your words, tit is mind boggling you do not see this.
Instead of calling each other out why don't we start again, show me a text you believe shows the trinity or that Jesus is the 'one God' and we can go from there.
Last edited:
Lonster
Member
lain: John 3:16 Read scriptures instead of just reading your preferred UB from weird men :Z John 10:17-18
For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”Isaiah 53:1-12
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.Your oddball gurus are COMPLETELY disdained. Sorry. Fact. You have no standing with any Christian who knows his/her Bible. It is just this ridiculous and just this strong and I simply must say it this bluntly. It is this ridiculous.
Lonster
Member
So you argue with scripture and God? :think:
It shows. It is not something you should be proud of. It is a mix of rationalization instead of wrestling over the very word of God for truth. This is a HUGE marked difference between you and others like you, and the rest of Christendom.
Yet scripture says animal blood wasn't capable AND that God purchased 'with His own blood.' Don't fight with God
He did lay down his life and He did take it up again. It was about proving his authority to teach, not pay a theoretical sin debt.
John 10:17-18
For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
Isaiah 53:1-12
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
Your oddball gurus are COMPLETELY disdained. Sorry. Fact. You have no standing with any Christian who knows his/her Bible. It is just this ridiculous and just this strong and I simply must say it this bluntly. It is this ridiculous.
Isaiah 53 was about Israel as a suffering servant. Jesus was forced into Isaiah 53 and other OT prophecies.
Last edited:
NWL
Active member
As I've repeatedly stated, the grammar and context does not necessitate that the blood is in reference to Gods blood, but rather, its in relation to his Son's blood, namely Jesus the Christ. Therefore I'm not arguing with scripture and God, but rather, your wooden interpretation of the text.
One cannot understand the bible without reason my friend. Remember it is you that believe in a doctrine that is nowhere explicitly taught or expressed, Trinitarians use their own reason, and logic to justify their beliefs. So to suggest that me claiming I'm using both reason and the scriptures hand in hand is not something I'm proud of is in essence shooting yourself in the foot, as everyone using reason in their understanding of anything in the world.
This is beside the point (a strawman) and pure arrogance, as once again you ignore my reasoning and simply regurgitate your belief once again without a shred of evidence. Again, for someone who claims they are a authority on the bible, you are pitiful at justifying your claims and beliefs.
All Christian of any denominations are in agreement the blood of animal did not and cannot fully take away the sins of man. Does the verse necessitate the 'blood' is in reference to his literal own blood, which you have already agreed he does not even have, or is there a possibility the blood relates to that of 'God' the Fathers Son as many other scholars believe and do not deny?
A smart person would agree there is a possibility, a stupid person would claim there is no possibility. I do not deny Acts 20:28 could be suggesting God himself gave his blood, I simply believe its more consistent and scriptural that the 'God' mentioned in the verse is in relation to the Father in Acts 20:28, and the 'blood' relates to that of his Son in the sense of 'bloodline'.
-----------------------------------------------------
I ask question and you fail to answer; I highlight I cannot fully develop my points until you answer, these question then accumulate and you still fail to answer a reasonable amount; I then give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you a single question and you still fail to answer.
My previous statement and question: Let's go back to basics, I will pick one of the many questions I have previously asked you and await your answer, hopefully, you'll answer and we can progress from there. The main topic of our discussion was if there are others who are called G-god who are not the 'one God' and who the originator of creation is. You've previously stated Jesus is the originator of creation and that because all things have been created through him he must be the originator because of the strong language used ("All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existences" John 1:3). My question is this, in Hebrews 2:8 it states God subjected "all things" under man and "left nothing that is not subject to him", since God and the Angels would no doubt be included in the "all things", according to your own reasoning, does this mean God and the Angels were subject to Man, or is the "all things" and God "leaving nothing not subject to Man" not inclusive of God himself and the Angels?
NWL
Active member
You keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims. It’s insane that people such as yourself actually believe you have the truth yet refuse to answer basic questions and evidence your own beliefs.
(Proverbs 18:2) “..Anyone stupid finds no delight in discernment, except that his heart should uncover itself..”
Lonster
Member
Yes it does. You are special pleading. It LITERALLY says "...purchased with His blood." - The Apostles didn't
have the hang up with this you Arians can't seem to help, or the Apostles would have stated things quite differently. You cannot argue with God and ultimately that is the issue, arguing with God very God, not the majority of Christians. One of the Watchtowers favorite verses is "Let God be true and every man a liar." Sadly they don't follow it, just use it to reason another as 'every other man a liar but them."
lain: TRY and see reason. Nobody is trying to steer you wrong. There are VERY good reasons we are Trinit-Arians. Learn why.
Lonster
Member
This is purposeful ignorance and isn't good science. It is all confirmation bias BECAUSE you are more familiar with an oddball book than the Bible Caino, and it show. Clearly you never read much of your Bible and worse: you don't know the mind of God. Isaiah was quoted OFTEN in the New Testament and by Jesus. <--READ IT! Quit preferring oddball men and women over and above God very God! It shows Caino!
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Do you mean by this that you believe in His Resurrection? I accept all who believe in Christ as my fellow Christian, even if separated, and only imperfectly united, as this condition is only temporary and not eternal.
Yes! There has never been a time in my life when I did not believe in the resurrection.
I know the Bible quite well. Jesus said in the Bible that laying down his life and taking it up again was proof of his authority, and within his power to do so. Don’t know what you are angry about?
Jesus did quote parts of Isaiah, but he didn’t claim that he was the “suffering servant” in the context used in Isaiah 53.
“context of “suffering servant”.
But you, O Israel, My servant, Jacob, you whom I have chosen, offspring of Abraham who loved Me...and to whom I shall say: 'You are my servant' - I have chosen you and not rejected you." (Isaiah 41:8-9)
"But hear now Jacob, My servant, and Israel whom I have chosen!" (Isaiah 44:1)
"Remember these things, Jacob and Israel, for you are My servant: I fashioned you to be My servant: Israel do not forget Me!" (Isaiah 44:21)
"..for the sake of My servant Jacob and Israel, My chosen one: I have proclaimed you by name..." (Isaiah 45:4)
"...say, 'Hashem (God) has redeemed His servant Jacob." (Isaiah 48:20)
"...You are my servant, Israel, in whom I take glory." (Isaiah 49:3)
"But as for you, do not fear My servant Jacob, the word of Hashem (G-d) and do not be afraid, Israel..." (Jeremiah 30:10)
"A heritage for Israel, His (God's) servant, for His kindness endures forever." (Psalms Chapter 136:22)
In Chapters 52 - 54, the prophet is referring to the gentile nations who have tormented and inflicted pain and suffering on the Jewish people. It is THESE nations who will be astounded and shocked to see that God has saved us from their persecution and returned us to our home, Israel: and, that ultimately, God will vindicate us for our suffering The same promises appear in the Book of Ezekiel 36:6-9 & 15 and in Jeremiah 30:8-13.
Last edited: