Is The Physical Realm Analogous To A Simulated Reality?

[Derf]

Ahh now I understand. I meant...in heaven we won't need physical eyes to see things. Will we?

Job thought so:
Job 19:25-27 KJV — For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

I don't know at the moment.



But Paul also wrote that we are already dead. That we have died and our lives are hidden with Christ. But we are still here, talking and walking around! Would you say that cheapens the fact that Christ died for us? Of course not. Likewise when a baby dies, that baby is heaven with the Lord.

Is he?
1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV — Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What's the lead up to that statement? The Thessalonians were concerned about what happens to those who had already died, before Christ returned. He didn't comfort them by saying, "They are with the Lord already," but instead said they would first be resurrected
(1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV — For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: )
and after that would be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
This passage again emphasizes the importance of the resurrection even on how we are with the Lord.

But that doesn't lessen the price the Lord paid for us.

3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

What I think is, Colossians 3:3-3 isn't just a metaphor or a figure of speech. I think Paul is making a statement of reality. That when we accept Christ, at least some part of us actually dies and is with the Lord, who is seated at the right hand of God. It is no longer attached to the physical realm.

But Christ is still physical. Remember that He first rose from the dead, in the same body (the tomb was empty) before He ascended into heaven. He is forever attached to the physical realm.

So I see a strong indication of this physical realm being a simulated or "lesser" reality of sorts, in these above verses.

God seems to be redeeming the physical realm, if (because) His only begotten Son is forever a part of it. There are still some changes coming, but the NEW heavens and earth will be a physical realm where all these physical humans, include Chrust Jesus, will live.

 

[ttruscott]

Yes we are all real. We are spiritual beings that for some reason, God decided to interact with us firstly via this simulated environment of the physical realm. That is what I mean in my OP.

I get it...the temporary body is a simulation of the spirit which was our first creation,

 

[ttruscott]

God seems to be redeeming the physical realm, if (because) His only begotten Son is forever a part of it. There are still some changes coming, but the NEW heavens and earth will be a physical realm where all these physical humans, include Chrust Jesus, will live.

Agreed.

Why make a universe of such vastness if it is never to be used? The vast universe is the playground for the heavnly spirits who can use adapted physicality to experience all the wonders of HIS creation.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why make a universe of such vastness if it is never to be used?

The universe exists to demonstrate God's glory, and serves as a witness for His existence.

Also, it's beautiful.

It doesn't need to be usable to have a purpose.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Job thought so:
Job 19:25-27 KJV — For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Do you believe we will be made of atoms in Heaven?

Is he?
1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV — Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What's the lead up to that statement? The Thessalonians were concerned about what happens to those who had already died, before Christ returned. He didn't comfort them by saying, "They are with the Lord already," but instead said they would first be resurrected
(1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV — For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: )
and after that would be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
This passage again emphasizes the importance of the resurrection even on how we are with the Lord.

I think the Biblical authors believed that death was when the spirit departs from the body. So yeah, for the dead to rise would mean that the spirit has been rejoined with the body. Death doesnt mean that the spirit was destroyed or shut off somehow.

But the Thessalonians were mostly Greeks I guess. We don't know what their exact issue was when Paul wrote to them. But it sounds to me like he is addressing a rather childish, perhaps even selfish concern, that the brothers who are still alive when the Lord returns will somehow be better off than those who have already died.

Nothing in Thessalonians precludes my belief that Paul likely would have given the Thessalonians at least a basic understanding of what happens when we die. And nothing in Thessalonians preludes my belief that Paul likely would have already explained to them that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Just as Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

If we read Thessalonians the way you suggest, we not only would have to say "Well maybe Jesus didn't really mean that"...We would also have to believe that Paul founded a Church in Macedonia and for some reason, never gave them any basic or important understanding about what happens when we die. That doing so, was only an afterthought that came to him, perhaps months later when he decided to write them this letter.

But Christ is still physical. Remember that He first rose from the dead, in the same body (the tomb was empty) before He ascended into heaven. He is forever attached to the physical realm.

God seems to be redeeming the physical realm, if (because) His only begotten Son is forever a part of it. There are still some changes coming, but the NEW heavens and earth will be a physical realm where all these physical humans, include Christ Jesus, will live.

Well, that's it good point. But it wont be the same universe. And I don't think anyone believes that this new universe will necessarily consist of atoms and particle physics.

I appreciate your feedback BTW. also at @Idolater even though I joke around a bit. I don't often find the time to talk about these things with other Christians.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

The universe exists to demonstrate God's glory, and serves as a witness for His existence.

Also, it's beautiful.

It doesn't need to be usable to have a purpose.

These are not only great points. They are undeniable.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

So now that we all agree () that the spiritual supersedes the physical and thus this physical universe can be thought of as a simulated reality, we can move on to the next question: What is the purpose?

I would say JudgeRightly hit the nail on the head.

The universe exists to demonstrate God's glory, and serves as a witness for His existence.

I would stress that it serves as a perfect witness. (Though this is of course is already implied in JudgeRightly's quote.) So that God can perfectly express Himself in this new environment. So that we can have a relationship with Him in it. Because He is the Father.

That must be it. And no matter which configuration of this simulated environment we are in (ie. before the Fall, after the flood or when God grafted in the gentiles) it must work to serve that purpose. In one configurate there presumably was no physical pain. In another, people get eaten alive by sharks.

In one, only priests can enter the Holy of Holies, after washing themselves . In another, we can all enter it at any time -our bodies are the temple. And so on.

And I think we can know it must be this way, from the language used in right at the beginning of Genesis. God is dividing things. Darkness from light. Time in to seasons. Land and water. Kinds. Dwelling places of creatures and so on.

To me, this indicates a covenant on a cosmic scale. Just as the Jews would divide an animal to say, let me end up like this animal if I break my word, God is making a promise here (about the purpose of His creation?). And then He creates Adam and puts him in a garden where they can dwell together in the cool of the day.