What Would Actually Prove That Someone Is Saved?

Clete

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This question came up this morning and so I thought I'd post my thoughts here.

It seems to me that most of the confusion surrounding such a question comes from looking in the wrong place for the answer.

If someone asked me to prove that I am saved, I would not point to my behavior, my church attendance, my emotions, or any ritual I have participated in. I would point to one thing only, and I would say it plainly:

I believe the gospel.

Paul defines that gospel clearly:

I Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,​

That is the content. That is the object of faith. That is the dividing line.

The issue is not whether a man has been baptized, whether he speaks in tongues, whether he keeps the law, or whether he has cleaned up his life. The issue is whether he is trusting the finished work of Christ alone.

Paul removes all ambiguity on this point:

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness​

If I have to point to my works to prove I am saved, then I am no longer standing on grace. I am attempting to validate myself, and that is precisely what Paul excludes.

Now here is where the discussion often gets shallow, because people reduce the gospel to a set of abstract facts, as though merely agreeing that certain events happened in history is sufficient. The gospel is not less than that, but it is certainly more.

The one who died for our sins was not merely a man. God Himself took on flesh. The eternal Son entered into His own creation, lived as a man, and went to the cross. The one we call Jesus is not simply a messenger of salvation, He is the very ground of it. His death is sufficient because of who He is. His resurrection is decisive because death had no rightful claim on Him.

To believe the gospel, then, is to entrust yourself to Him. Not to your performance, not to your reform, not to your religious activity, but to the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

That is the proof.

Everything else follows from that, but nothing can replace it.

There will, of course, be a change in thinking and in life. Paul speaks often about walking worthy, about putting off the old man, about bearing fruit. Those things are real, and they matter. However, they are the result of salvation, not the evidence by which it is established.

A man can clean up his life and still be lost. A man can be baptized and still be lost. A man can be deeply religious and still be lost.

The question is not, “What have you done?”

The question is, “What are you trusting?”

If the answer is anything other than Christ alone, then no amount of external evidence will prove salvation. If the answer is Christ alone, then that is sufficient, because God Himself has said so:
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ​
That is where assurance rests. Not in the shifting ground of human performance, but in the finished work of the One who loved us and gave Himself for us.
 

Nick M

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You know if they are saved by what they confess. In a way you can come to a conclusion based on their behavior. But it is probably the opposite of the religion of Christianity. For example, if idolater goes into a confessional and believes that "priest" can absolve him of his sin, then he is outside the faith. His actions show he does not believe in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.
 
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Clete

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You know if they are saved by what they confess. In a way you can come to a conclusion based on their behavior. But it is probably the opposite of the religion of Christianity. For example, if idolater goes into a confessional and believes that "priest" can absolve him of his sin, then he is outside the faith. His actions show is disbelieve in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.
Perhaps, but human beings are very capable of holding multiple contradictory beliefs in their head. If he believes the gospel, as has been laid out in previous threads (I can do so again here if need be), then regardless of how confused the rest of his doctrine is, he will be saved, even if by the skin of his teeth.
 

Right Divider

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Perhaps, but human beings are very capable of holding multiple contradictory beliefs in their head. If he believes the gospel, as has been laid out in previous threads (I can do so again here if need be), then regardless of how confused the rest of his doctrine is, he will be saved, even if by the skin of his teeth.
I always immediately think of this verse for that context:

1Cor 3:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

Clete

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I always immediately think of this verse for that context:

1Cor 3:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
My comments in post 3 are a bit of hyperbole, by the way. It isn't actually REGARDLESS of how confused the rest of one's doctrine gets. If your doctrine is such that you talk people into killing themselves and their children (e.g. Jim Jones) then that's probably a few bridges too far.

My point is only that I'm not ready to toss the entire Catholic church into the fire based on their legalism. The same logic could be applied to practically every sect in the whole of Christian history. Not that I condone the Catholic's goofy practices that are entirely unbiblical and irrational. Quite the contrary. I simply don't believe it overcomes the saving power of the gospel for those Catholics who do happen to believe it, however many (or few) that might be.
 

Right Divider

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My comments in post 3 are a bit of hyperbole, by the way. It isn't actually REGARDLESS of how confused the rest of one's doctrine gets. If your doctrine is such that you talk people into killing themselves and their children (e.g. Jim Jones) then that's probably a few bridges too far.
How so? Were their sins not completely forgiven?

Do you think that Jim Jones was saved in the first place?
My point is only that I'm not ready to toss the entire Catholic church into the fire based on their legalism. The same logic could be applied to practically every sect in the whole of Christian history. Not that I condone the Catholic's goofy practices that are entirely unbiblical and irrational. Quite the contrary. I simply don't believe it overcomes the saving power of the gospel for those Catholics who do happen to believe it, however many (or few) that might be.
I agree that some Romanists might be saved despite the RCC's terrible doctrine. But if they fully believe RCC doctrine, it's just unlikely that they will be saved (as they are constantly taught that they must "perform" to get saved).
 
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Clete

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How so? Were their sins not completely forgiven?
Maybe they were. I rather doubt it. They were all hippy leftists communists. Nothing about what they were doing or how they lived bears any resemblance to a life lived trusting in God's grace for their salvation. They murdered their own children.

Do you think that Jim Jones was saved in the first place?
Extremely unlikely. He murdered 909 people as an expression of his "faith".

I agree that some Romanists might be saved despite the RCC's terrible doctrine. But if they fully believe RCC doctrine, it's just unlikely that they will be saved (as they are constantly taught that they must "perform" to get saved).
If they believe that God Himself became a man (Jesus Christ) and that He died for their sin and that He rose from the dead then they will be saved. Almost the entire Christian faith teaches that one must perform to get saved to one degree or another. It's rare as hen's teeth to find a church that doesn't teach one form or another of legalism. Legalism hobbles a Christians daily walk and leads to a life lived in frustration and a lack of joy and victory over sin but it does not negate God's grace.

I would agree, however, that, when it comes to Catholics, those who are believers in the true gospel are the exception, not the rule. I would also agree that, generally speaking, it's best to presume that a person is not saved when there is a reasonable doubt.
 
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Nick M

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Perhaps, but human beings are very capable of holding multiple contradictory beliefs in their head.
I noticed. There is plenty on X that isn't theology. The real hypocrisy comes out in sports. You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many people think the refs cheated them in every game their teams lost.
 

Right Divider

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Maybe the were. I rather doubt it. They were all hippy leftists communists. Nothing about what they were doing or how they lived bears any resemblance to a life lived trusting in God's grace for their salvation. They murdered their own children.
Your "bridge too far" comment made me think that you thought that they were saved, but then "sinned to much".
Extremely unlikely. He murdered 909 people as an expression of his "faith".
Agreed, so for him it was not a "bridge too far"... he was just unsaved.
If they believe that God Himself became a man (Jesus Christ) and that He died for their sin and that He rose from the dead then they will be saved. Almost the entire Christian faith teaches that one must perform to get saved to one degree or another. It's rare as hen's teeth to find a church that doesn't teach one form or another of legalism. Legalism hobbles a Christians daily walk and leads to a life lived in frustration and a lack of joy and victory over sin but it does not negate God's grace.
Amen!
I would agree, however, that, when it comes to Catholics, those who are believers in the true gospel are the exception, not the rule. I would also agree that, generally speaking, it's best to presume that a person is not saved when there is a reasonable doubt.
Amen!
 

Clete

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Douglas Fossett

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I appreciate how clearly you’ve grounded this in trusting Christ alone. That keeps the foundation where it belongs.

One thought I’ve been considering alongside that—

If salvation is ultimately about what a person is trusting, it raises the question of what that trust looks like from the inside, especially over time.

In Romans 8, Paul describes not only belief, but also a kind of inward experience—creation groaning, and even believers themselves groaning as they wait for what has been promised.

That seems to point to something ongoing.

Not a question of whether Christ’s work is sufficient—it is—but how that reality is experienced in a life that is still in the process of being restored.

It makes me wonder if part of that “trust” includes not just agreement with the gospel, but also a kind of movement within the person—

a recognition that things are not as they should be,
a longing for them to be made right,
and a drawing toward the One who restores.

Not as proof in place of faith, but as something that flows from being connected to Him.

Curious how you would see that in relation to what you’ve described.
 

Idolater

Popetard
This question came up this morning and so I thought I'd post my thoughts here.

It seems to me that most of the confusion surrounding such a question comes from looking in the wrong place for the answer.

If someone asked me to prove that I am saved

Why would somebody do that?

"Prove that you're saved"—what? That's gay. Prove to me you're not gay. In saying "Prove you're saved," I now have grounds to believe you're gay, so now, prove to me you're not gay, before we proceed with this discussion.​

That's what I'd tell someone who wanted me to prove I'm saved.

, I would not point to my behavior, my church attendance, my emotions, or any ritual I have participated in. I would point to one thing only, and I would say it plainly:

I believe the gospel.

Paul defines that gospel clearly:

I Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,​

That is the content. That is the object of faith. That is the dividing line.

The issue is not whether a man has been baptized, whether he speaks in tongues, whether he keeps the law, or whether he has cleaned up his life. The issue is whether he is trusting the finished work of Christ alone.

Paul removes all ambiguity on this point:

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness​

If I have to point to my works to prove I am saved, then I am no longer standing on grace. I am attempting to validate myself, and that is precisely what Paul excludes.

Now here is where the discussion often gets shallow, because people reduce the gospel to a set of abstract facts, as though merely agreeing that certain events happened in history is sufficient. The gospel is not less than that, but it is certainly more.

The one who died for our sins was not merely a man. God Himself took on flesh. The eternal Son entered into His own creation, lived as a man, and went to the cross. The one we call Jesus is not simply a messenger of salvation, He is the very ground of it. His death is sufficient because of who He is. His resurrection is decisive because death had no rightful claim on Him.

To believe the gospel, then, is to entrust yourself to Him. Not to your performance, not to your reform, not to your religious activity, but to the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

That is the proof.

Everything else follows from that, but nothing can replace it.

There will, of course, be a change in thinking and in life. Paul speaks often about walking worthy, about putting off the old man, about bearing fruit. Those things are real, and they matter. However, they are the result of salvation, not the evidence by which it is established.

A man can clean up his life and still be lost. A man can be baptized and still be lost. A man can be deeply religious and still be lost.

The question is not, “What have you done?”

The question is, “What are you trusting?”

If the answer is anything other than Christ alone, then no amount of external evidence will prove salvation. If the answer is Christ alone, then that is sufficient, because God Himself has said so:
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ​
That is where assurance rests. Not in the shifting ground of human performance, but in the finished work of the One who loved us and gave Himself for us.

Jesus said if you have literally but a mustard seed's worth of faith, you have plenty—more than enough. What's a mustard seed's worth of faith going to look like? Probably not much. It's probably not going to look very pretty. You're probably going to spend most of your time doubting and questioning and probing the faith, because you're so unsure. You might habitually engage in even grave sins. Now you might not—but you might. You only have a mustard seed's worth of faith—not a lot to spare—hardly anything. It's not going to look pretty.

He also praised in the Gospels a couple of Gentiles for their faith, one of them He said He hadn't seen such faith in all of Israel, and He said this right in front of His Disciples lol. I think that makes it impossible almost to tell whether someone really believes or not, in spite of what they might confess or not confess, do or not do. Did His Disciples have faith in Him? If you were to ask those who saw them together, maybe they'd say "Sure," but maybe not, but it's interesting the examples of the Gentiles who had faith in Him, and how He said even that display of faith, He had not seen even among those who followed Him around.

There is a certain point though, with criminals, that the question about their salvation is a curiosity, while their body must surely be destroyed because of what they've done, but then that just reminds of where Jesus differentiates those who can destroy the body from those who can throw you into Hell for eternity. Your body can do wretched things even though you've got a mustard seed's worth of faith tucked in your soul somewhere.
 
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