What Is Morality, and is it Absolute?

Right Divider said:

I think that most people would have a better general definition of God in their minds than life. That's obviously just my opinion. That's why I prefer to refer to God as the standard for morality rather than life is the standard for morality.

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But one of the main points of argument around here is the definition of God, whether He is omnipresent or not, or omniscient or not. Whether He decrees all things or not. Whether He is impassible and immutable.

Right Divider said:

No argument with that.

Physical life, indeed, is temporary. We Christians believe that when God creates us, that He gives us more then just physical life.

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Sure. He gives us much more than life. He gives us rationality, as @Clete has pointed out, not to mention things like language, clothing, family, etc.

But if we put the word "physical" before life, then we change the definition of "life" to something that never ends, in which case people do have difficulty understanding morality. The things that end what you call physical life are not the same things that end spiritual life, and therefore morals can become arbitrary.

Derf said:

But one of the main points of argument around here is the definition of God, whether He is omnipresent or not, or omniscient or not. Whether He decrees all things or not. Whether He is impassible and immutable.

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Thanks Mr. Insightful

Derf said:

Sure. He gives us much more than life. He gives us rationality, as @Clete has pointed out, not to mention things like language, clothing, family, etc.

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Again, your insights are just amazing.

Derf said:

But if we put the word "physical" before life, then we change the definition of "life" to something that never ends, in which case people do have difficulty understanding morality.

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I cannot follow your "logic". Perhaps you have none.

Derf said:

The things that end what you call physical life are not the same things that end spiritual life, and therefore morals can become arbitrary.

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Clete said:

Why is your answer yes?

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Because rape is always wrong. Their hypothetical question is "Is it wrong if there is no God?" Burning your children alive is wrong. We might not know it without him telling us it is wrong. It is still wrong even if he didn't tell us it is wrong.

Clete said:

The same problem arises with Unconditional Election. If God is necessarily righteous and rational life is the objective standard of morality, on what basis does God unconditionally select certain individuals for eternal life while passing over everyone else? If the answer is simply that God sovereignly chose to do so, we've returned to the very problem we began with! God's sovereign choice cannot itself be the explanation for why that choice is righteous. There must be an objective moral reason for the distinction.

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Here they just ignore the scriptures. Hilston came up with a Mormon/JW/Cathlic/Muslim answer. The Bible is wrong. I probably have a Word document saved on the exchange.

Nick M said:

Because rape is always wrong. Their hypothetical question is "Is it wrong if there is no God?" Burning your children alive is wrong. We might not know it without him telling us it is wrong. It is still wrong even if he didn't tell us it is wrong.

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I agree that murder and rape and other such things are wrong. I, however, when asked, can explain to people WHY it is wrong.

I'm trying to understand whether you are merely asserting that it is wrong or whether there is a why behind that assertion.

Why is murder wrong if there is no God?

Nick M said:

Here they just ignore the scriptures. Hilston came up with a Mormon/JW/Cathlic/Muslim answer. The Bible is wrong. I probably have a Word document saved on the exchange.

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So, this is closer to an answer. Are you saying here that murder is wrong if there is no God because the bible says so?

How does that work? If there is no God then the bible is vastly wrong on a great many things, not the least of which is that there is a God, right? Why then would anyone want to trust it to define right and wrong?