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YES! I AGREE!! OUR predestination occured AFTER our fall as a response to the fall even though it was told to all that predestination to hell was inevitable if any sinned the unforgivable sin... Predestination created no sin whatsoever!!! It only warned of, predicted, the inevitable RESULT OF...

Yes, I believe this represents their doctrine also... Those who deny this obvious implication are deep in doublethink fueled by the cognitive dissonance the doctrine of double predestination creates in them, a workable reconciliation only if you don't actually dig into the implications too...

This is impossible to avoid without massive doublethink, accepting that opposites can be true at the same time...that HE predetermined all things yet is not responsible for our being created evil by having us created in Adam's sinfulness.

I agree. HIS reason is accepted by Calvinists as apparently not based upon any condition found in us to accept us or to reject us but to play this unfathomable card is unfathomable in itself giving the fact of HIS nature e benevolent, loving, righteous and just. Our salvation had to be outside...

Yes, this is the Calvinist mistake, knowing a little theology but nothing about HIS loving nature...believing sovereignty trumps love but it in fact must conform to love, righteousness and justice. Sovereignty does not mean that if HE chooses to do something it then conforms to HIS loving...

...which would tend to imply that their predetermined fate was based upon their free will choices and decisions and NOT without condition nor reason as Calvin suggested. They chose their eternal relationship with YHWH and HE chose their eternal fate as the perfect moral response to their free...

Not just Calvinists... I am a die-hard anti-Calvinist and have had Beloved57 on ignore for years but I accept that these two sentences are true or the word predestination has no meaning.

This question betrays a great gap in the understanding of GOD's love and the reason, ie, HIS purpose, the heavenly marriage, that HE created us to fulfill. It is as wrong as the level of misunderstanding that would suggest Satan is one of the Divine Persons of the trinity.

Ad hominem. Ad hominem. Ad hominem. Ignores content. Ad hominem. Misconstrues the content to apply t me when i asked if it applied to you...sigh. I do not think He is tricksie but you must if you think HE uses a metaphor to explain a metaphor. There is a song verse or two that describes...

My goodness... Rev 12: 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. is all I need. 'to the earth' is clearly in the Greek. What are you on about?

People like me, eh? A line used to depersonalize people, to dehumanize them for political, racial and cultural reasons, putting the blame for your animosity on your victims. Where do you think Satan and his angels went or got to after being flung to earth? Especially in light of 2 Peter 2:4 For...

ImCo: Planet earth was a prison planet from the moment it was chosen to be where GOD's army flung Satan and his demons to sequester HIS heaven from the leaven of the wicked, Rev 12:1-9. Satan too flung some people here whom he had control over, ie, they had followed him into rebellion, but to...

Where ever we were when we saw the creation: Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the Sons of God shouted for joy? KJV....

By our creation we were indeed able to fulfill all things but not here, on earth after we have chosen to be sinful...

I suggest that there can be no sin by ignorance but only by a free will decisions to go against HIS decision knowing how HE defines or names the consequences for each option of that decision. I also think that eating of the tree of knowledge is an euphemism for making a sinful decision and...

Well, it is interesting to consider 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil...

Well, ummm, I just don't think anyone but Christ had to enter death for the salvation of Eve et al. Another set of metaphors to ponder: In Satan all the reprobate, those condemned already for the unforgivable sin, Jn 3:18, the people of the evil one on earth, aka the goats, are summed up...ie...

No one was taken. Those who left, left by their own free will. The Satanic left Him by putting their faith in the idea that since YHWH could not be better than themselves that HE must be a liar and a false god driven by an evil psychosis of megalomania, thus sinning the unforgivable sin, fit...

I suspect they are both metaphors for GOD's purpose for us, HIS relationship with HIS creation. Christ is the Head of the Church and is also the Lamb who is Husband to the Bride. In ordinary terms the head does not marry the body but that is a mixing of metaphors that has no merit. From the...

Why do you think HE was constrained in some way against HIS power? Are you just denigrating HIM for some reason? You start with a worldly story and try to make it fit some worldly view of GOD. I start with an understanding of who GOD is and then look to see how HIS goodness is expressed in the...