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And babies must be saved from death. Which words are you having trouble with? I didn't use the word "hell". But even before the word shows up in scripture, death is described as man's destiny. "Hell" is a distraction. The main issue is death, which is, indeed, God's punishment for the sin of...

What curse do you think Rev 22 is referring to? [Rev 22:1 KJV] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [Rev 22:2 KJV] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life...

Are you saying the originals had punctuation and vowels, but the copies did not? I've never heard anyone suggest that before.

Actually, I'm not sure we're still under that curse: Genesis 8:21-22 KJV — And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any...

What does it mean when Jesus says anyone who doesn't believe is condemned already (John 3)? Babies haven't had a chance to believe, so they are condemned, right? By the way, "condemned" is essentially a synonym of "sentenced". Death wasn't part of the "very good" creation. Death came because...

Not completely outdated. Most of the terms are still used today in the same way, but not all, certainly. "Y'all" and "all y'all" could be substituted, don't you think?

I never replied to this one. Definition of "sentence" the punishment assigned to a defendant found guilty by a court, or fixed by law for a particular offense. So you seem to be at odds with yourself When you said this Do you see the conundrum you've put yourself in? Then it sounds like you...

Where in the bible does it say Adam died spiritually that day? And where does God say, "If you eat of the wrong tree, you will die spiritually"? Rather, He said, "If you eat of the wrong tree, ...you will die the death." Or "...dying thou dost die." Or "...you will surely die." I couldn't find...

I know, right? Why did God make such a big deal about Jesus dying. Is death a punishment? Genesis 2:17 KJV — But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Sounds like one to me. But let's just say...

Are you saying death is not a curse or a suffering? Or are you saying God originally planned for us all to die? Calling it names doesn't really make the doctrine any more or less true. I don't hold to the part of original sin where nobody has the ability to respond to the gospel unless God...

You would have hated the original Hebrew (no vowels or punctuation or chapter or verse) or Greek (no punctuation, chapter, or verse), if you don't like missing the paragraphs.

I never said they were. Remember this thread is about accountability, right? About whether someone might receive punishment for something they didn't understand they were doing wrong? I'm saying there's more to it, since some (babies) receive punishment for something they didn't even do. Until...

You can dance around the fact all day long, but you just keep reiterating my point--babies die because of Adam's sin. If Adam had not sinned, both he and everyone else who never sinned would probably still be alive. Since it's not recorded history, I don't know if that's how it would work, but...

And humans die because of Adam's sin. Therefore, if C (babies die) was the result of B (humans die), and B was the result of A (Adam's sin), then C resulted from A. Why is this concept so difficult? Don't add other concepts, let's just deal with this one: babies die because Adam sinned.

I never said they deserved it. Show me where, if you think I did. But if you can extrapolate my words to think I believe the babies are somehow morally culpable, despite the fact I argued against it to both you and @marke, it makes me wonder where else you've extrapolated meaning well beyond its...

I can see you don't like where we ended up, that a baby dies because of someone else's sin, but let's probe deeper. All those animals you've mentioned also die as a result of Adam's sin. And while an animal can sin to a point deserving of death, mostly we don't think they sin, right? But they...

Thank you. That's what I was saying. Therefore the innocent die because of someone else's sin.

Because babies die, and death is the result of sin. If it's not the baby's sin, then it must be someone else's.

Then you believe as I do...that we die because of someone's sin other than our own.

I didn't say they did. I said we all die due to our ancestor Adam's sin. Is there a reason you can't acknowledge that, just like @Clete can't seem to?