17 Year Old Shot And Killed By Cop

[Mocking You]

Yes, allegedly jammed, and they found the unfired round just where they should have. So the evidence supports that the gun jammed. The report says nothing about Deven's knuckles, so, you know, absence of evidence . . .

Interesting that neither of the cop's weapons worked perfectly. The taser didn't work because "it was fired too close to the target" and his gun jammed at the exact moment the cop needed it to work. I also found the story that the body cam's microphone system is set up so it can't detect loud, punctuating noises (um...like a gunshot), to be interesting as well. What police department buys body cams that won't record the sound of gunfire?

 

[GuySmiley]

Interesting that neither of the cop's weapons worked perfectly. The taser didn't work because "it was fired too close to the target" and his gun jammed at the exact moment the cop needed it to work. I also found the story that the body cam's microphone system is set up so it can't detect loud, punctuating noises, to be interesting as well.

Yeah, that is interesting. Did you hear the gunshots in the video? In the CNN video I linked you can hear 4 of them, before they cut it.

 

[Granite]

I think its highly likely.

It's obvious that you would.

If Deven were to bend down

He was supposedly on top of Frost, correct? Punching him? Having "pinned" him, right? Why would Guildford want to "bend down"?

and the cop wanted to get a fatal shot

After shooting him six times.

you'd have to reach up and angle the gun down against his head.

See above.

You'd be trying to reach around where his hand are and out of his vision.

After--ya know, if you don't get the point now, you never will.

I think its more likely to put the gun at the top of his head and shoot downward than to put the gun right in his face or under his chin where Deven would be trying to block your hands or even take the gun away.

Completely absurd.

Guildford was shot seven times. He saw clearly that Frost was reaching for his weapon and there's no indication in the report itself he ever once attempted to strike Frost's arm, or go for the officer's firearm. None.

From page 17: "While he rolled slightly to his side and used both hands to clear the gun (ejecting the unfired cartridge), Sgt. Frost was still being hit on his head. Sgt. Frost then turned the gun toward Deven and fired seven times in rapid succession."

No indication Frost took his time or chose his shot. None. The exact opposite, actually--so you're contradicting the report itself as you see fit. This is not surprising, since the report itself is self-contradictory. (Sidebar: If Frost was "pinned," how could he roll side to side?)

From page 18: "Deven was in a position to see Sgt. Frost's actions, and that he had a handgun pointed at him, yet Deven did not stop his attack. Sgt. Frost reported that while he was clearing the gun jam, Deven was still actively hitting him in the face and head." This beggars belief: The kid was ferociously attacking a cop and never once went for his gun?

The scenario in the report makes little sense and yours makes even less. He was able to shoot the kid repeatedly without any apparent problem for four seconds. Yet you think he somehow, whilst pinned, no less, went out of his way to awkwardly shoot the teenager at an angle inconsistent with the report.

Whatever helps you sleep. I guess.

 

[GuySmiley]

It's obvious that you would.

and vice versa

He was supposedly on top of Frost, correct? Punching him? Having "pinned" him, right? Why would Guildford want to "bend down"?

To punch him. He'd have to lean forward.

After shooting him six times.

When police shoot, they shoot till you are incapacitated.

Guildford was shot seven times. He saw clearly that Frost was reaching for his weapon and there's no indication in the report itself he ever once attempted to strike Frost's arm, or go for the officer's firearm. None.

Police don't have to wait till you are going for their weapon to shoot you. But its always a possibility it might happen.

The scenario in the report makes little sense and yours makes even less. He was able to shoot the kid repeatedly without any apparent problem for four seconds. Yet you think he somehow, whilst pinned, no less, went out of his way to awkwardly shoot the teenager at an angle inconsistent with the report.

Whatever helps you sleep. I guess.

My scenario is the one in the report. Why does the prosecutor say the shots are consistent with the report? Here's your chance to lay out the conspiracy.

 

[Granite]

To punch him. He'd have to lean forward.

You said "bend down." He was already hitting the cop, Guy, right? What did he want to do, examine the dude more closely, or something?

Police don't have to wait till you are going for their weapon to shoot you. But its always a possibility it might happen.

Not the point I was trying to make.

My scenario is the one in the report.

No, it does not. Go back and read my post. Your idea that Frost took his time choosing where to shoot Guildford's asinine in and of itself but even this pathetic little report doesn't agree with your scenario.

Why does the prosecutor say the shots are consistent with the report?

He's contradicting himself, just as the report itself does throughout. Read my posts.

 

[GuySmiley]

You said "bend down." He was already hitting the cop, Guy, right? What did he want to do, examine the dude more closely, or something?

Yes Granite, in a fight, you might move forward and backward. You might not just hold still. In this case with one guy sitting on the other, moving forward and back takes the form of bending forward, or sitting more upright. Sitting completely upright would not allow you to punch a guy in the face. You'd have to bend forward and you wouldn't just sit still.

No, it does not. Go back and read my post. Your idea that Frost took his time choosing where to shoot Guildford's asinine in and of itself but even this pathetic little report doesn't agree with your scenario.

Please quote where I said Frost took his time choosing where to shoot him. People are capable of quick decisions you know.

 

[Granite]

Yes Granite, in a fight, you might move forward and backward. You might not just hold still. In this case with one guy sitting on the other, moving forward and back takes the form of bending forward, or sitting more upright. Sitting completely upright would not allow you to punch a guy in the face. You'd have to bend forward and you wouldn't just sit still.


Please quote where I said Frost took his time choosing where to shoot him. People are capable of quick decisions you know.

Post 360's scenario is completely absurd and even at odds with the report you claim to stand behind.

Frost was (somehow) able enough to move around enough to draw his gun, attempt to fire, and clear a round. Guilford supposedly never once tried to grab the gun, or prevent Frost from getting it. And with the guy right on top of him you're thinking it made sense for Frost to change the angle of his gun hand up and down, side to side, before he finally, awkwardly shot Guilford in the head after hitting him six times already.

 

[Mocking You]

Yeah, that is interesting. Did you hear the gunshots in the video? In the CNN video I linked you can hear 4 of them, before they cut it.

"Just before Deven's scream, Sgt. Frost rapidly shoots his service gun three times. The body-cam' s audio did not record the sound of the shots. According to its manufacturer, the sound was too loud and the decibels exceeded the body-cam's recording range."

(bottom of page 6)

http://www.eatoncounty.org/images/D...ney/Press_Releases/Guilford_Press_Release.pdf

But of course it recorded the NEXT four shots just fine, shots that happened simultaneously with Deven's screams. According to the report Deven did not scream as the first three bullets were smashing into his body.

 

[Mocking You]

Post 360's scenario is completely absurd and even at odds with the report you claim to stand behind.

Frost was (somehow) able enough to move around enough to draw his gun, attempt to fire, and clear a round. Guildford supposedly never once tried to grab the gun, or prevent Frost from getting it. And with the guy right on top of him you're thinking it made sense for Frost to change the angle of his gun hand up and down, side to side, before he finally, awkwardly shot Guildford in the head after hitting him six times already.

A newly minted lawyer fresh out of law school should be able to win a lawsuit against the Eaton County police department. The report has more holes in it than a screen door.

 

[GuySmiley]

Post 360's scenario is completely absurd and even at odds with the report you claim to stand behind.

Well I don't see in post 360 where I suggested Frost took a time out to plan his strategy. If you had the impression that I meant he phoned a friend for advice, sorry I led you astray, I never meant that. There's is a video of this event, and nothing I am saying is outside the timeline of what's presented.

Frost was (somehow) able enough to move around enough to draw his gun, attempt to fire, and clear a round. Guildford supposedly never once tried to grab the gun, or prevent Frost from getting it. And with the guy right on top of him you're thinking it made sense for Frost to change the angle of his gun hand up and down, side to side, before he finally, awkwardly shot Guildford in the head after hitting him six times already.

Alternatively, you think it makes more sense that Frost held his gun perfectly still with a guy on top of him punching him in the face. That makes no sense. Yes, of course I think he would change the angle and position of the gun when this was happening. How could you not?

 

[Granite]

Well I don't see in post 360 where I suggested Frost took a time out to plan his strategy.

If Deven were to bend down and the cop wanted to get a fatal shot

After the first six...

You'd be trying to reach around where his hand are and out of his vision. I think its more likely to put the gun at the top of his head and shoot downward than to put the gun right in his face or under his chin where Deven would be trying to block your hands or even take the gun away.

There's zero indication whatsoever Deven ever attempted to go for the gun. So that's out the window. Maybe you should clarify when you think Frost blew his brains out: After the first six shots, delivering a coup de grace? Or in the middle of the sequence? Or first?

There's is a video of this event

Not of the shooting there isn't.

 

[GuySmiley]

There's zero indication whatsoever Deven ever attempted to go for the gun. So that's out the window. Maybe you should clarify when you think Frost blew his brains out: After the first six shots, delivering a coup de grace? Or in the middle of the sequence? Or first?

I didn't say Deven attempted to go for the gun either. I said, Frost would likely hold the gun in such a way to prevent that. I didn't say he stopped for a minute to make a plan or consult a manual. You keep arguing with things I don't say. I think the head shot had to be last, don't you? I don't know, the autopsy didn't try to put them in order, I probably shouldn't either.

 

[Granite]

I didn't say Deven attempted to go for the gun either. I said, Frost would likely hold the gun in such a way to prevent that. I didn't say he stopped for a minute to make a plan or consult a manual. You keep arguing with things I don't say. I think the head shot had to be last, don't you? I don't know, the autopsy didn't try to put them in order, I probably shouldn't either.

You would think shooting the kid six times at point blank range might have been sufficient. Popping him one more time in a coup de grace paints a somewhat unsettling picture. Especially if he's already dripping blood and dying while bent over the cop who is "pinned" with a gun in his hand. If Frost shot Deven in the head last, at this peculiar angle you're insisting on, I don't see how that makes him look any better in this situation. If anything it makes him look even more calculating.

 

[GuySmiley]

You would think shooting the kid six times at point blank range might have been sufficient. Popping him one more time in a coup de grace paints a somewhat unsettling picture. Especially if he's already dripping blood and dying while bent over the cop who is "pinned" with a gun in his hand. If Frost shot Deven in the head last, at this peculiar angle you're insisting on, I don't see how that makes him look any better in this situation. If anything it makes him look even more calculating.

I have two close friends who are cops. Although one of them works at a jail, so the other one would dispute that. But they've told me that they are told its amazing how some people keep running on adrenaline after being shot multiple times. So they are told to keep shooting till they go down. I'm leaving to have beers with one of them now. I doubt I'll look at TOL this weekend. If this thread is still running Monday I'll try my best not to respond, but no promises. We're just getting into pure speculation now. Have a nice weekend.

 

[Granite]

I have two close friends who are cops. Although one of them works at a jail, so the other one would dispute that. But they've told me that they are told its amazing how some people keep running on adrenaline after being shot multiple times. So they are told to keep shooting till they go down. I'm leaving to have beers with one of them now. I doubt I'll look at TOL this weekend. If this thread is still running Monday I'll try my best not to respond, but no promises. We're just getting into pure speculation now. Have a nice weekend.

Stay safe. Don't make them angry.

Have a nice weekend. Go Pats.

 

[patrick jane]

Stay safe. Don't make them angry.

Have a nice weekend. Go Pats.

View attachment 20601

 

[patrick jane]

Oh, BTW - CNN video shows and THEY report that the cop DID kick the phone from the boy's hand. The kid was pleading with the officer and the cop had ample opportunity to cuff the young lad.

 

[Christian Liberty]

According to the deceased's father and girlfriend, it looks like he went looking for a fight.

Deven's father and girlfriend reported that, in the days and weeks preceding this traffic stop, Deven was focused on YouTube videos of police encounters with citizens. While not expressing harsh anti-police rhetoric, Deven was supporting the videos as examples of police violating people' s rights and "how bad cops are". They
said that Deven's focus on these videos was recent, sudden, out of the ordinary, and may have influenced Deven in this traffic stop. His father reported that, in recent days, he tried to counsel his son that these videos did not show how all police acted.
Deven' s act of recording the traffic stop may have been intended for YouTube. Deven held his phone to focus on Sgt. Frost and narrated "This is what American..." as Sgt. Frost ordered him to put the phone down and move his arms to his side so he could be handcuffed.

You do realize that you're responsible for this culture of death don't you Granite?

If "Christian Culture" means cops can kill people for even nowhere near lethal levels of resistance to their arrests, count me out.

If such killings are not even dependent on the original cause for arrest being ethically justifable, count me out again.

When the atheist is espousing more morality than you in a given situation, you should feel ashamed.

You guys are horrible people and have no business calling yourselves Christians.

And then you call me "merciless" because of my views on executing people for homosexuality. Because obviously that's not nearly as serious as resisting arrest.

And don't even get me started on all the fake "theonomists" here and their utter unwillingness to enforce the first table, except when it comes to blasphemy AGAINST COP then you're all for killing them.

 

[glorydaz]

Oh, BTW - CNN video shows and THEY report that the cop DID kick the phone from the boy's hand. The kid was pleading with the officer and the cop had ample opportunity to cuff the young lad.

Last word...... :mock: CNN

 

[Christian Liberty]

The depth of your stupidity knows no bounds.

No, you guys are even dumber than he is. And that's saying something. Anti-intellectual evangelicalism needs to die. The further evangelicalism gets from the Reformed confessions, the stupdier it gets. Which makes you guys the most moronic Christians on the planet (if you even deserve to be called that.)

This is the reason why so many people are falling to atheism. Its tragic, and its your fault.

Don't post another thing, ever. You're only giving the enemies of God cause to blaspheme, its disgusting. And yes, I just said that to the admin of TOL. I don't give a crap