A Peculiar Kind of Gospel
- Thread starter Philip
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A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
Speak the truth in love.
Sozo has a heart under the crusty exterior.
Earl Jabay (interesting books on our propensity to play God): "The Kingdom of Self" "The god-players"
Philip has some interesting insights into sozo's modus operandi (patterns).
One's communication is enhanced or detracted by character and personality.
The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. No individual has cornered the market on truth. The Word, not our commentary on it, is authoritative.
= Proverbial platitudes and principles from a pious punk who has been plastered by Sozo the Perfect Philosopher in the past causing myself and others persistent pain.
Speak the truth in love.
Sozo has a heart under the crusty exterior.
Earl Jabay (interesting books on our propensity to play God): "The Kingdom of Self" "The god-players"
Philip has some interesting insights into sozo's modus operandi (patterns).
One's communication is enhanced or detracted by character and personality.
The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. No individual has cornered the market on truth. The Word, not our commentary on it, is authoritative.
= Proverbial platitudes and principles from a pious punk who has been plastered by Sozo the Perfect Philosopher in the past causing myself and others persistent pain.
1PeaceMaker
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1PeaceMaker
New member
I am thinking I should tell you what I feel about you, and why I call you a viper. You preach non-perfection in Christ. The ability to fall, to sin. That is a misleading thing, for you, and for others. If you die imperfect, you will not be in heaven.
who's the pious punk who got plastered by Sozo? What meaneth "plastered"?
punk= moi
'Perfection in Christ' is meaningless if the pastor is having an affair with his secretary (sin; breaking the moral law of God). I believe we can be perfect/mature in Christ, walking in the light as He is in the light. To deny it is impossible to sin as a believer is contrary to the experiences recorded in Scripture and modern church life (I John; I Cor.; Eph. 4-6; Romans; Rev. 2;3). This does not mean that we must sin. There is power and freedom in Christ to be holy as He is holy (He commanded this; He did not say just recognize your position in Christ).
'Perfection in Christ' is meaningless if the pastor is having an affair with his secretary (sin; breaking the moral law of God). I believe we can be perfect/mature in Christ, walking in the light as He is in the light. To deny it is impossible to sin as a believer is contrary to the experiences recorded in Scripture and modern church life (I John; I Cor.; Eph. 4-6; Romans; Rev. 2;3). This does not mean that we must sin. There is power and freedom in Christ to be holy as He is holy (He commanded this; He did not say just recognize your position in Christ).
Sozo
New member
These false ideas alone are why I believe you have never come to Christ. Most of the time, you have some good things to say, and then it is like some evil spirit wells up in you and you spew out this combination of easily refutable lies. There must be something stuck in your brain that keeps you rejecting the truth when it comes to one's identity in Christ, and other than boneheaded pride or a religious demon, I have no idea what that might be.
I think I understand your idea of perfection in Christ (all of God, none of me). I am just suggesting it should manifest in reality. It seems specious for a pastor to claim perfection in Christ while he is skimming church funds, sleeping with the secretary, etc. This man needs to repent and renew obedience to walk in the light as He is in the light. One could say he was not a genuine believer, but there are Christians who lie, cheat, and lust. God rebukes and convicts those who are not holy, mature, and 'perfect'. We are to BE holy, as He is holy (command in NT), not just BELIEVE we are 'perfect'.
I am recognizing the verses that say we are in Christ. It just seems you are not recognizing the hundreds of exhortations, imperative/commands relating to the moral law of God for NT believers. To recognize discipleship and right living does not mean one dismisses justification by grace through faith apart from the law. To recognize the exhortations about obedient choices does not mean we do it in our own strength or that the Spirit has no role. We are warned to not quench or grieve the Spirit, to not live as we used to live, etc. Recognizing these explicit truths should not put one outside of salvation, but should be seen as reconciling all the relevant texts, not just the ones that emphasize God's role rather than our part.
I am recognizing the verses that say we are in Christ. It just seems you are not recognizing the hundreds of exhortations, imperative/commands relating to the moral law of God for NT believers. To recognize discipleship and right living does not mean one dismisses justification by grace through faith apart from the law. To recognize the exhortations about obedient choices does not mean we do it in our own strength or that the Spirit has no role. We are warned to not quench or grieve the Spirit, to not live as we used to live, etc. Recognizing these explicit truths should not put one outside of salvation, but should be seen as reconciling all the relevant texts, not just the ones that emphasize God's role rather than our part.
1PeaceMaker
New member
Godrulz, have you ever read my thread, entitled The Spiritual Law? Some may argue it is an incomplete work, and perhaps that is why it didn't really stimulate discussion.
The reality is, if God's love for you awakens faith-filled love for Him, how can we sin? Christ, the seed of our hearts keeps us from sin. Love dominates, and in the end, despite an abundance of all other emotions, love rules the day. Love to God, and love for our brother, and that is why we cannot sin.
We can only keep the Royal Law of Love in Christ.
The reality is, if God's love for you awakens faith-filled love for Him, how can we sin? Christ, the seed of our hearts keeps us from sin. Love dominates, and in the end, despite an abundance of all other emotions, love rules the day. Love to God, and love for our brother, and that is why we cannot sin.
We can only keep the Royal Law of Love in Christ.
Balder
New member
1PeaceMaker,
Is this theoretical or actual? If you believe it is actual, how would you account for all the negative things that have been done by Christians throughout history? Would you say that whoever did those things "wasn't really Christian"? How about the Christian man or woman who gives in sometime to temptation and cheats on his/her spouse, or takes something that doesn't belong to them, or takes the Lord's name in vain? They might repent afterwards ... and if they are truly serious about their faith, they probably will. But does this mean that because they "sinned" at some point after professing Christianity, they couldn't really have been true Christians? Or would this mean that these things cannot be counted as "sin" because these people now have Christ's righteousness covering them?
Peace,
B.
Is this theoretical or actual? If you believe it is actual, how would you account for all the negative things that have been done by Christians throughout history? Would you say that whoever did those things "wasn't really Christian"? How about the Christian man or woman who gives in sometime to temptation and cheats on his/her spouse, or takes something that doesn't belong to them, or takes the Lord's name in vain? They might repent afterwards ... and if they are truly serious about their faith, they probably will. But does this mean that because they "sinned" at some point after professing Christianity, they couldn't really have been true Christians? Or would this mean that these things cannot be counted as "sin" because these people now have Christ's righteousness covering them?
Peace,
B.
1PeaceMaker
New member
Balder,
Have you read my thread, the Spiritual Law? I have a link to it in post #28 of this thread.
It is more about love than anything.
I think my thread will help you understand where I am coming from. You are welcome to comment there, despite where it is located. Or you can just post you thoughts here, I guess.
Have you read my thread, the Spiritual Law? I have a link to it in post #28 of this thread.
It is more about love than anything.
I think my thread will help you understand where I am coming from. You are welcome to comment there, despite where it is located. Or you can just post you thoughts here, I guess.
1PeaceMaker
New member
To answer your question more directly, it is both theoretical and actual. Just at face value, you can see the legal transactions, and the fairness of the contract.
Underneath that, you can see more. The blood = the life of God, the one Spirit in us each, and the white garments speak of putting on a new paradigm(God's paradigm). A worldveiw that makes a fundamental shift from looking at outward works for goodness, to a paradigm where love, not an action, rules the concience. Not in a fleshly, hormonaly-shifting weak way, but one that is rooted in the spiritual essence that God has imparted to us as his sons. I am talking about deep motives.
Another thing. Just because one claims to be changed, and to accept Christ as Lord of their life, it means nothing if they are truly unchanged beneath. They have taken the Lord's name in vain. That is what that commandment means.
Underneath that, you can see more. The blood = the life of God, the one Spirit in us each, and the white garments speak of putting on a new paradigm(God's paradigm). A worldveiw that makes a fundamental shift from looking at outward works for goodness, to a paradigm where love, not an action, rules the concience. Not in a fleshly, hormonaly-shifting weak way, but one that is rooted in the spiritual essence that God has imparted to us as his sons. I am talking about deep motives.
Another thing. Just because one claims to be changed, and to accept Christ as Lord of their life, it means nothing if they are truly unchanged beneath. They have taken the Lord's name in vain. That is what that commandment means.
There is a difference between WILL not sin, and CANNOT sin. Genuine believers should not sin and do not have to sin. The reality is that some believers sin in thought, word, deed, or motive (only God knows the heart). To say that we cannot sin is to misunderstand the nature of sin. Sin is a wrong moral CHOICE, not a substance. Unless we are more free before conversion, it is possible to sin. I John 1, in context, exhorts us to not sin, but reminds us that we are to repent and renew obedience IF we do sin. There is also a difference between an isolated lapse and an ongoing, habitual sin/bondage. This is supported by the continuous, habitual present tenses (Greek) in the relevant passages.
Love involves will and intellect. If we love God and others, we will live up to the principles of the decalogue. A Christian should not covet, but Paul warned NT believers to not do so. This implies it is possible, even if unlikely, that a believer could covet, lust, etc. How many Christians are dabbling in pornography? This is lust and a sin. Your theory might be nice on paper, but it is simplistic to say lust is not sin, or that a professing Christian who is tempted to lust is not really a Christian.
Sozo
New member
godrulz... where do you come up with this strange theology of yours? Are you sure you know what sin is? According to Paul, "where there is no law, neither is there violation". Do you understand that? If there is no law to prove you guilty, then you cannot sin. John states: "Sin is lawlessness", and Paul also declares that "sin is not imputed when there is no law".
I would assume that we agree that the wages of sin is death, do we not? It is not being in and out of fellowship. It is not walking in and out of the light. It is death! You cannot make up some new system to relate to God concerning sin. Have you not read Hebrews chapters 7-10?
That is just plain screwy! :kookoo:
If the law still condemns men of sin, then they are incapable of not sinning. Paul affirms this when he states:
"I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. And I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive, and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me."
For you to claim that you are capable of not sinning, and to still be under the demands of the law, is the apex of self-deception.
You are either under the Law, in sin, and dead to God, or...
You are under grace, in Christ, and alive to God.
It is that black and white, and to suggest otherwise is to completely undermine the gospel, and to insult the shed blood of Jesus.
Sin is lawlessness. Sin is a wrong moral choice. The law convicts of sin.
King David was a believer. He committed adultery and murder. These are sins, lawlessness, wrong moral choices. It does not help to say he was in the OT. OT and NT believers and unbelievers did sin, despite your sinless perfection concepts. We do not have to sin, but it is self-evident a Christian can commit adultery (or does God strike them dead before intercourse)? There is no excuse for a believer to sin. If sin was not a choice, but a substance, then maybe God could eradicate it. To say we cannot sin means God eradicated free will, moral responsibility, accountability. We could do what we want, including evil, and chant I cannot sin, but sin is sin.
Can a pastor have an affair? Is adultery a sin? Can a believer sin?
You misinterpret the intent of the passages on the law. We are under grace, but this does not mean that the universal moral code is meaningless and lawlessness rules. We are not under the law, but if we rebel and disobey volitionally, the law will condemn us and drive us back to surrender and grace.
King David was a believer. He committed adultery and murder. These are sins, lawlessness, wrong moral choices. It does not help to say he was in the OT. OT and NT believers and unbelievers did sin, despite your sinless perfection concepts. We do not have to sin, but it is self-evident a Christian can commit adultery (or does God strike them dead before intercourse)? There is no excuse for a believer to sin. If sin was not a choice, but a substance, then maybe God could eradicate it. To say we cannot sin means God eradicated free will, moral responsibility, accountability. We could do what we want, including evil, and chant I cannot sin, but sin is sin.
Can a pastor have an affair? Is adultery a sin? Can a believer sin?
You misinterpret the intent of the passages on the law. We are under grace, but this does not mean that the universal moral code is meaningless and lawlessness rules. We are not under the law, but if we rebel and disobey volitionally, the law will condemn us and drive us back to surrender and grace.
Lawless
New member
Godrulz:.....
Open your heart to the Perfect Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. Be Obedient to our Lord's Authority, and rest in the security of that perfect blood. The ministry of death (Law) was fullfilled at the cross, it too was crucified.....Why do you cling to it? If you have Christ you are dead to the Law. You are free!
Open your heart to the Perfect Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. Be Obedient to our Lord's Authority, and rest in the security of that perfect blood. The ministry of death (Law) was fullfilled at the cross, it too was crucified.....Why do you cling to it? If you have Christ you are dead to the Law. You are free!
Sozo
New member
I have already affirmed that.
Why do you continue to provide further evidence that any relationship you have to the Christian faith is just religious lip service, and not the reality of someone who has been saved?
Your post is so twisted with lies and perversion, that it makes it difficult to find a place to begin with you. For the most part, I have already addressed your spurious arguments, but you completely ignored them, and just keep repeating yourself with the same earthly, demonic wisdom that does not come from God, but from a heart that is filled with deception.
Christians have NO relationship to God through the Law.
"Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."
How much more evidence do you need? Are you a slave of righteousness, or a slave of sin? You cannot be both. You cannot serve two masters. Are you in the spirit, or in the flesh? You cannot be in both. You cannot move out of one and into the other through an act of human will. Are you alive, or are you dead?
"For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God."
"Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."
"...having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness"
I am certain, that YOU, godrulz, will just gloss over those verses and continue to ignore them, as you always do. Your religious spirit will not allow you to know the truth.
Where does the bible say that? This is YOUR interpretation of lawlessness. YOU are a moralist, and not a Christian. Morality is not righteousness. You are confused. Christians are righteous, not moral. If "moral choices" is what defines a Christian's righteousness, then there are NO christians. *Note* (The following is not a rhetorical insult, but a fact based on your own doctrine) YOU are anti-Christ, and pro-godrulz. YOU believe and teach that you are righteous because of what YOU do, because of your "moral choices" and not because of your identity with Christ.
It sure does, but "Christians" have no relatioship with the Law. We "were made to die to the Law, through the body of Christ".
YOU refuse to do that, which means that YOU refuse Christ.
Yes he was, but he was also under the demands of the Law. David had not died with Christ. Christ had not yet died, nor been raised from the dead. David was looking forward to the promise, and was not saved.
Yes he did, and so have YOU & I, under the Law. And apparently, YOU still do.
Once again, YOU add your own commentary to lawlessness, and pervert the truth.
My "sinless perfection" concepts? You're an idiot!
"For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin."
"For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God."
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."
"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit"
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."
"And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness."
"Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus"
"For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions"
Please define for me how someone can be complete and yet not perfect.
"God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect"
"For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified."
"No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
1. He who has died is free from sin.
2. Christians have died and their life is hidden in Christ.
3. No one who is in Christ sins.
4. No one who is born of God sins.
5. The one who practices sin is of the devil.
Are you a Christian?
or
Are you of the devil?
If YOU actually took the time to read those verses (and the adjoining comments), YOU might have a clue what a stupid statement that is... but I doubt it.
Considering the fact that they are DEAD TO IT, I would say that is true!
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law"
Ever heard this...
"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
"For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all"
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh"
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
"...but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."
"...having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."
"He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness"
"And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."
ARE YOU "IN HIM"?
"And this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures"
"For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more."
"...having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God"
""And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
"He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
"Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin."
You are trying to amalgamate righteousness and morality, yet again. YOU just don't get it. Dead men have no free will. The gospel message is the only thing that sets men free from being dead in Adam to being alive in Christ, and dead toAdam. In Adam, you are not "free" to be righteous, and in Christ, you are not "free" to be unrighteous.
Yes, they can, and they often do. They will also suffer in the flesh for it. But, sin brings death, and if it is a sin, then they will die. Sin is a transgression of the Law. A Christian has no relationship to the Law.
ummm...NO! If he could, he would not be a believer.
You cannot mix Law and grace, without destroying them both. They are both holy.
That is a blasphemous statement, and because of your ignorance of all that I have pointed out in this post, I will let it go.
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1PeaceMaker
New member
You cannot forget how to brush your hair can you? In your normal healthy state. You learned how to a long time ago, and you can't just choose to go back to your babyhood, now matter how free you feel you are. As Paul said, "when I was a child, I spoke as a child," etc. Right? That is the difference. And he won't allow us to lose what we got by this spiritual maturation.(using Paul's example, from 1cor 13)
As I have said before, that is wrong. Only in the fleshly, sin-bound world can that falshood seem true.
By George, I think you may just get what I am saying, if you are reading this post! :thumb:
Re-think your scripture, there Dude. I know that this is a hard one for you, as we have been over this scripture with you probably a 100 times, but maybe you'll get it today. I hope you do.
Please, I don't know how many times you must be told how greek tenses work. This is not a scholarly way to read scripture. Why don't you go take a Greek course. That should help you.
You are making an assumption that all those Paul addresses are converted. That is a mistake. The church is a school, and a battleground, as well as a hospital, if you will. Many people join, and are there for a while before they finally get it. Peter is a good example. He was a disciple before he was converted. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Maybe those Christians are converted, maybe they are not. What you are discussing is irrelevant, though. You are very flesh obsessed in your thinking. What is their paradigm, what is yours? You can do many unprofitable things that have nothing to do with your conversion/walk with God. But is there Love for God and your brothers? An abiding love?
You think you have all the bases covered, don't you? You are thinking it is either A) or B) .... but watch out... there is a new idea sneaking up behind you... You weren't planning for option C)
In the flesh, lust is sin, because everything is focused on the law, graven in stone. In the Spirit, there is neither male nor female, and how can you lust for something that is already yours? Then, coming from a place of love, that being the law ruling your spirit, you would never rape, or murder, or do anything you thought would harm your brother without any just cause.
In Christ, there is no sociopath. You know? Only faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is Love.
1PeaceMaker
New member
That was a great post, Sozo, and I agree with everything but the David thing. There was a point where David did sin, and that was the bathsheeba incident, but a couple of things were going on there, I think.
First of all, he was a lot like the pre-conversion Peter, and although he was a man after God's heart (a compassionate man, devoted to God's cause) he did not understand what it meant to be righteous. After he royally screwed up, he came to the end of himself, just as Peter did, after he denied his Lord. After all that, then David said, "blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity" or something like that. You get the idea.
Now, because he was God's anointed one, similar to Peter's baptism, in a way, he was guiltless in God's eyes. And Nathan told David that God had already put away his sin. Because otherwise David would have had to be under a mountain of stones for what he did.
Now, what do you think of that?
Absolutely, we are free. There is provision and power to live a sinless life. Some seem to imply we are perfect even if we persist in sin. We agree on the key to victory. What I am trying to suggest is that not every believer walks in victory and the light. Theoretically, to deny the possibility that a believer can never have a sinful thought, motive, act, word, etc. is contrary to experience and Scripture.
Phil. 1:12,13 "Therefore, my dear friends (believers), as you have always OBEYED (volitional vs believe 'perfect')...continue (process) to work out your salvation (we do not work out physically to get a body, but to enhance the one we have...we cannot earn salvation) with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose."
Rick Warren's Purpose Driven teaching mentions that we have a role/responsibility and God also does. Discipleship and character growth is not passive or unilateral. Obedient choices is a biblical concept, but you folks seem to think they have something to do with the Law. Disobedient choices can be sinful, even for a believer. Lighthouse euphemistically (?) calls believer's 'sins' unprofitable acts only.
Talking about loving God and others (living up to the moral law of God= summary of decalogue) does not mean one denies the finished work of Christ on the cross or self-sanctification. We are not robots that are just zapped by God. Believers do not float through life in a bubble. We will be tempted just as Jesus was. He was tempted, yet without sin. We are tempted, and do not have to sin. Is it theoretically possible to yield to temptation as a believer? Yes. Deny it with circular arguments all you want. It does not change the fact that some yield to temptation, contrary to God's will and work of the Spirit.
Just as God's provision for justification must be appropriated through repentant faith, so our Christian life must involve appropriating His provision. If we do not at times, we may walk in the flesh vs light at that moment. This does not mean we lose our salvation.
Despite sounding spiritual, your views on sanctification or held by very few people. Entire sanctification, absolute sinless perfection with an inability to ever have a wrong thought, motive, deed, etc. is considered unscriptural.
Peace told me to take Greek. I have studied Greek for my Bachelor of Theology. I John and its uses of the present, continuous tense undermines your understanding of 'we cannot sin', etc. I exegeted this previously. Those like sozo who argue foolishly from ignorance about Greek (the 'all' episode on another thread) should not cling to ideas that are not grammatically defensible. The Spirit inspired the grammar and context.
I Peter 1:13 ff. emphasizes our role...you prepare, be self-controlled, obedient children, do not conform, be holy, live your lives...
These imperatives/commands show that we have a volitional responsibility to be holy as He is holy. This is done in the power of the Spirit. The opposite is possible that we could NOT be self-controlled and sin
(believers have affairs= sins...why deny this? Oh, it does not fit your theology that Christians CANNOT possibly sin, because they are in Christ and not under the law...the law still exists with its consequences whether we sin or do not sin, whether believer or unbeliever...if you murder someone with a gun...what do you mean you cannot pick up a water gun and squirt someone? you will sin if you kill with a real gun...if you can hunt an animal, you can murder a human).
Pointing out these self-evident extremes should not label me as an unbeliever or fleshly thinker. It is scripturally and logically defensible. Try telling a judge that you are a Christian and your affair leading to divorce or vehicular homicide due to speeding is not wrong because you are in Christ, perfect, and cannot sin/make mistakes!?
Rick Warren's Purpose Driven teaching mentions that we have a role/responsibility and God also does. Discipleship and character growth is not passive or unilateral. Obedient choices is a biblical concept, but you folks seem to think they have something to do with the Law. Disobedient choices can be sinful, even for a believer. Lighthouse euphemistically (?) calls believer's 'sins' unprofitable acts only.
Talking about loving God and others (living up to the moral law of God= summary of decalogue) does not mean one denies the finished work of Christ on the cross or self-sanctification. We are not robots that are just zapped by God. Believers do not float through life in a bubble. We will be tempted just as Jesus was. He was tempted, yet without sin. We are tempted, and do not have to sin. Is it theoretically possible to yield to temptation as a believer? Yes. Deny it with circular arguments all you want. It does not change the fact that some yield to temptation, contrary to God's will and work of the Spirit.
Just as God's provision for justification must be appropriated through repentant faith, so our Christian life must involve appropriating His provision. If we do not at times, we may walk in the flesh vs light at that moment. This does not mean we lose our salvation.
Despite sounding spiritual, your views on sanctification or held by very few people. Entire sanctification, absolute sinless perfection with an inability to ever have a wrong thought, motive, deed, etc. is considered unscriptural.
Peace told me to take Greek. I have studied Greek for my Bachelor of Theology. I John and its uses of the present, continuous tense undermines your understanding of 'we cannot sin', etc. I exegeted this previously. Those like sozo who argue foolishly from ignorance about Greek (the 'all' episode on another thread) should not cling to ideas that are not grammatically defensible. The Spirit inspired the grammar and context.
I Peter 1:13 ff. emphasizes our role...you prepare, be self-controlled, obedient children, do not conform, be holy, live your lives...
These imperatives/commands show that we have a volitional responsibility to be holy as He is holy. This is done in the power of the Spirit. The opposite is possible that we could NOT be self-controlled and sin
(believers have affairs= sins...why deny this? Oh, it does not fit your theology that Christians CANNOT possibly sin, because they are in Christ and not under the law...the law still exists with its consequences whether we sin or do not sin, whether believer or unbeliever...if you murder someone with a gun...what do you mean you cannot pick up a water gun and squirt someone? you will sin if you kill with a real gun...if you can hunt an animal, you can murder a human).
Pointing out these self-evident extremes should not label me as an unbeliever or fleshly thinker. It is scripturally and logically defensible. Try telling a judge that you are a Christian and your affair leading to divorce or vehicular homicide due to speeding is not wrong because you are in Christ, perfect, and cannot sin/make mistakes!?
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