• This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective. Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed. 1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team 2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.

Allegory/Symbolism in Genesis 1

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
Col 1:14-20 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: (1:15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (1:16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (1:17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (1:18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. (1:19) For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; (1:20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Proves my point. The firstborn of every creature. Are you claiming no other creatures were born before Jesus was born?

On the other hand I specifically agree with this passage as Jesus was the very first being God created. Then everything else was created by God but through His son…

Adam was made in the image of God too. Don’t see you claiming that makes him God.

It did please the Father to bring all things to Him through His son, who then gives all things back to God.

1 Corinthians 15:34
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power”
 

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
And He was in the beginning with God, and He was God.
[Jhn 1:1-3 KJV] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Was water made? Yet you have God's Son made AFTER the water, so He must not have made the water.
[Gen 1:2-3 KJV] 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Was light made? Gen 1:3 said it was, so by John 1:3, The Word (Jesus Christ) must have made the light, yet you say He was the light and was made. Do you believe what the bible says?
You don’t understand the word “complete.

The earth was formless and void, not complete.

Have you ever seen light from something non-material? So apparently this light was not light as you mistake it to be but Jesus understood quite well being the light of the world. If you think Jesus is electromagnetic radiation as we understand light, well there’s not much hope for n this conversation.

If you think the light of even God himself is electromagnetic radiation, then there is zero hope for this conversation……

I’m not sure any words can convince someone who confuses the light of God or Jesus with electromagnetic radiation given off by physical objects….
 

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
"Pure Energy"?

Terrific 1980s song! The "pure energy" line is a sample of something Spock said in the Star Trek episode "Errand of Mercy" (S1 E26) (Click the link above to hear the song!)

That too would depend on just what you mean by "energy", which can actually get quite complicated and surprisingly philosophical. If you're talking about the sort of energy that is talked about in physics then that isn't correct. The sort of energy that can be converted to or from mass is part of God's creation and is not God Himself. Potential energy that you get by working against something like a spring or gravity, like when you wind a watch or reset the weights in a grandfather clock, is all a result of forces that come as a result of God's creation and are not God Himself. That sort of thing is simply action and reaction. It's just physics and is associated with the created order, not the creator Himself.
Are you sure?

Romans 1:20

“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

Everything is made from this energy you claim has nothing to do with the aspect of God and everything will return to this energy. It exists everywhere, even in the emptiness of space.

Without energy you wouldn’t have thought or even life. Just what do you think the image we were created in was?

The man has become like one of us…. Knowing… good and bad…

The Bible tells you if you choose to listen….
 

Right Divider

Body part
Proves my point. The firstborn of every creature. Are you claiming no other creatures were born before Jesus was born?
You are ignorant of the meaning the word translated to "firstborn". It has nothing to do with being "born" at all. It has to do with preeminence.

Col 1:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

ALL THINGS were create BY HIM. Therefore, He cannot be one of them.

On the other hand I specifically agree with this passage as Jesus was the very first being God created. Then everything else was created by God but through His son…
That is JW garbage.
Adam was made in the image of God too. Don’t see you claiming that makes him God.
That is because Adam is not God, but Jesus is.
It did please the Father to bring all things to Him through His son, who then gives all things back to God.

1 Corinthians 15:34
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power”
Irrelevant to Christ's deity.
 
Last edited:

Derf

Well-known member
You don’t understand the word “complete.

The earth was formless and void, not complete.
If the earth existed before the Son, then it wasn't made by Him, yet John tells us everything that was made was made by Him. How do you reconcile that?
Have you ever seen light from something non-material? So apparently this light was not light as you mistake it to be but Jesus understood quite well being the light of the world. If you think Jesus is electromagnetic radiation as we understand light, well there’s not much hope for n this conversation.

If you think the light of even God himself is electromagnetic radiation, then there is zero hope for this conversation……
Yet that's not the kind of light described in Gen 1. It was light that could be blocked, so it can't be Jesus.
I’m not sure any words can convince someone who confuses the light of God or Jesus with electromagnetic radiation given off by physical objects….
So you're saying you are so confused that there's nothing that will convince you?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Are you sure?
Yes, very much so.

Romans 1:20

“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

Everything is made from this energy you claim has nothing to do with the aspect of God and everything will return to this energy. It exists everywhere, even in the emptiness of space.
Stupidity. Is this really how you do theology? Is this really the process you used to form your doctrine? If so, there is no wild-eyed insanity that is outside the grasp of your belief system.

Romans 1:20 is referencing the obviously designed nature of the created order. It's referencing the fact that it cannot have happened by accident. Just as a watch is proof of a watch maker, the creation itself is proof of a creator. If something has been made, then someone made it.There isn't any hint in Romans or anywhere else in either the bible or plain common sense that God Himself is somehow be manipulated through electrical wires so as to create visible light and heat when you turn your bedroom light on. DUH!

Without energy you wouldn’t have thought or even life. Just what do you think the image we were created in was?
You need to read my posts more carefully. I never suggested that there wasn't any sort of energy that God uses and perhaps even is. But just because God is capable of performing actions (i.e. using energy) does not mean that He is energy itself and even if He is energy itself does not mean that He is all and every time of energy nor matter its source. God is NOT electromagnetic radiation, for example, which is a form of energy. (A point you have already agreed with.) Likewise, God is not gravity and He is not the weak or strong atomic force. All such forces are what's involved in everything from chemical reactions to the fact that you stop at the floor when you fall down. These things are part of the created order and are not God Himself as anyone older then 12 years of age could tell you.

As for our having been created in the image of God, the major clue on that subject comes in John chapter one where Christ, the direct, physical incarnation of the Creator into human form is discussed. It is the human intellect, the fact that reason is our only means of survival, that demonstrates our creation in the image of Logos.

The man has become like one of us…. Knowing… good and bad…
You're tripping over something close to the truth, in spite of yourself.

Who do you suppose the word "us" refers too?

The Bible tells you if you choose to listen….
Make an argument or go away. I am not interested in deciphering what you think is some sort of riddle. Any additional comments of this kind will be ignored. If they become what you post, in general, you will be ignored totally.
 

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
You are ignorant of the meaning the word translated to "firstborn". It has nothing to do with being "born" at all. It has to do with preeminence.

Col 1:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

ALL THINGS were create BY HIM. Therefore, He cannot be one of them.
So when it says Jesus was the firstborn from the dead that’s preeminence right, even though Elijah resurrected bones and Jesus resurrected Lazarus.

Your belief doesn’t hold water.

Jesus was the firstborn of the dead to eternal life and the firstborn of every creature because he was the first and only being created by God. God’s “only-begotten” son….

And just like we must add that unwritten qualifier that Jesus was the firstborn from the dead to “eternal” life not preeminent in being resurrected to life… well I’m sure you can logic out the rest….
That is JW garbage.
Trinity is pegan garbage…
That is because Adam is not God, but Jesus is.

Irrelevant to Christ's deity.
Neither one is.

Irrelevant to you because you can’t handle the irreconcilable belief that God is going to give the Kingdom to God. N stead of the son who is not God will give it to God.
Who said Jesus wasn’t Devine? Or can’t be considered a god? After all, men the word of God were written to were called gods by God…. And yet scripture can’t be nullified…

That’s why Jesus defended himself against the false accusation of blasphemy by the Pharisees when they accused him of claiming to be God.

The perfect point to support that claim if he was indeed God. Instead he defended himself against their false charge.

And now here you are accusing Jesus of blasphemy once again….
 
Last edited:

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
If the earth existed before the Son, then it wasn't made by Him, yet John tells us everything that was made was made by Him. How do you reconcile that?
You mean like it tells us he was firstborn from the dead even though Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus? So your preeminence contradiction is just that. So the qualifier firstborn from the dead must be understood as to eternal life….

And since you know Jesus was the only-begotten of God and the firstborn, you must qualify that with all “other” things.

Your belief leads you into contradiction after contradiction trying to uphold Psgan beliefs that crept into the church…
Yet that's not the kind of light described in Gen 1. It was light that could be blocked, so it can't be Jesus.
How was it blocked? After the light the darkness was lifted….

Seems you are delving into fantasy to uphold your beliefs now.
So you're saying you are so confused that there's nothing that will convince you?
John told you why he wrote down all these things, but you don’t believe him…
 

justatruthseeker

Member
Temp Banned
Yes, very much so.


Stupidity. Is this really how you do theology? Is this really the process you used to form your doctrine? If so, there is no wild-eyed insanity that is outside the grasp of your belief system.

Romans 1:20 is referencing the obviously designed nature of the created order. It's referencing the fact that it cannot have happened by accident. Just as a watch is proof of a watch maker, the creation itself is proof of a creator. If something has been made, then someone made it.There isn't any hint in Romans or anywhere else in either the bible or plain common sense that God Himself is somehow be manipulated through electrical wires so as to create visible light and heat when you turn your bedroom light on. DUH!
Is this how you do your argument by ad-hominem?

Through electrical wires? Is that your best argument?

Define energy please….

You don’t have a clue what it is and neither does any scientist on this planet….
You need to read my posts more carefully. I never suggested that there wasn't any sort of energy that God uses and perhaps even is. But just because God is capable of performing actions (i.e. using energy) does not mean that He is energy itself and even if He is energy itself does not mean that He is all and every time of energy nor matter its source. God is NOT electromagnetic radiation, for example, which is a form of energy. (A point you have already agreed with.) Likewise, God is not gravity and He is not the weak or strong atomic force. All such forces are what's involved in everything from chemical reactions to the fact that you stop at the floor when you fall down. These things are part of the created order and are not God Himself as anyone older then 12 years of age could tell you.
And yet you can’t tell me what energy is, nor can any scientist except “work”…

So much for those older than 12….
As for our having been created in the image of God, the major clue on that subject comes in John chapter one where Christ, the direct, physical incarnation of the Creator into human form is discussed. It is the human intellect, the fact that reason is our only means of survival, that demonstrates our creation in the image of Logos.


You're tripping over something close to the truth, in spite of yourself.

Who do you suppose the word "us" refers too?
His only-begotten son.
Why are you confused thinking it’s 3 gods in one like the Pegans did?
Make an argument or go away. I am not interested in deciphering what you think is some sort of riddle. Any additional comments of this kind will be ignored. If they become what you post, in general, you will be ignored totally.
The first sign of ignorance…. Thinking they were wise they became fools…

Yes, that verse was directed right at you…

Oh and btw…. I still await your oh so intelligent definition of energy. Please enlighten us all oh wise one…

Evidence please…. Your patronizing assertions are unimpressive….
 

Derf

Well-known member
You mean like it tells us he was firstborn from the dead even though Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus? So your preeminence contradiction is just that. So the qualifier firstborn from the dead must be understood as to eternal life….

And since you know Jesus was the only-begotten of God and the firstborn, you must qualify that with all “other” things.
Which could mean, since no qualifyer is provided (as opposed to your everlasting life qualifier), that the only thing Jesus made were things in Joseph's wood shop. But that's ridiculous, we both agree, and so is the qualifier that only serves to limit Jesus' creative work to fit your preconceptions.
Your belief leads you into contradiction after contradiction trying to uphold Psgan beliefs that crept into the church…
I have no idea what that means.
How was it blocked? After the light the darkness was lifted….
How is light blocked today?
Seems you are delving into fantasy to uphold your beliefs now.

John told you why he wrote down all these things, but you don’t believe him…
I don't believe John when he said the Word was God? I don't see where you get that, as I do believe John.
 

Right Divider

Body part
So when it says Jesus was the firstborn from the dead that’s preeminence right, even though Elijah resurrected bones and Jesus resurrected Lazarus.
CONTEXT determines the meaning of a word.
Your belief doesn’t hold water.
Yes, it does.
Jesus was the firstborn of the dead to eternal life and the firstborn of every creature because he was the first and only being created by God. God’s “only-begotten” son….
So God did not create Adam and Eve? Your beliefs do not match the Bible.

Gen 5:1-2 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:1) This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; (5:2) Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
And just like we must add that unwritten qualifier that Jesus was the firstborn from the dead to “eternal” life not preeminent in being resurrected to life… well I’m sure you can logic out the rest….
You are simply confused due to your acceptance of false doctrines.
Trinity is pegan garbage…
No, the Triune God is Biblical and true.
JW doctrines are false.

Jesus is the Creator of ALL THINGS, therefore He cannot be a "creation" or "created being".

John 1:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 
Top