ARCHIVE: Will You Be Celebrating Christmas?

ARCHIVE: Will You Be Celebrating Christmas?

  • Yes

    Votes: 87 81.3%
  • No

    Votes: 20 18.7%

  • Total voters
    107

novice

Who is the stooge now?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Originally posted by Hilston
Is that what you call "truthsmacking"? You don't offer a single statement of God's Word? You don't even attempt to make a biblical refutation of my argument? Where's the truth you're supposed to be smacking me with, novice? Don't just assert, novice. Prove your claims or shut your Christmas cake-hole.
It's already been done Jim!

This entire thread is full of biblical arguments that demolish your idiotic assertions!

Sometimes there are arguments that are so completely stupid that all they really deserve is some good old fashioned mocking, this argument of yours is one such example.

Celebrating Christmas is worse than abortion??? It might be funny if it wasn't so disgusting.
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Lucky

His arguments have been refuted so many times, what else is there to do but watch as he makes a fool of himself? :chuckle:
It's only wishful thinking on your part, Lucky. Do you forget that others can read these posts. Any rational person knows that these arguments from scripture have not been refuted. To make such an unsupported claim is the only way you can have your Christmas cake and eat it, too. You sound like the evolutionists who claim over and over again that evolution has been proven and creationism has been disproven.

Where's the refutation, Lucky? Give us the link that refutes my view. There are lots to choose from. You'll see that every attempt at a counterargument has been soundly and biblically refuted. If you can't produce the link, or even the argument itself, it will be known to all that you're merely blowing smoke.
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Originally posted by novice
It's already been done Jim!
Oh, I see. So the reason you started blowing the trumpet for a call to arms is ... what? Because it's already been done? Brilliant! You're sharp as a tack, novice. :thumb:

Originally posted by novice
This entire thread is full of biblical arguments that demolish your idiotic assertions!
Excellent! I must've missed them. Please post their links so I can finally be set straight and I'll stop bugging you.

By the way, those of you who believe Romans 14 and 1Corinthians 8 are about respecting the abstinence of others regarding special days and food restrictions, why do you disobey your own interpretation of the verse by wishing me a Merry Christmas? Shouldn't you respect my weak faith and refrain from causing me to stumble?

Ro 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


Hypocrites!
 

Crow

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Originally posted by Hilston

It's what Paul says, Crow. Religious holidays are an open denial of Christ's headship. Prove otherwise.

I'm going to let the one person on this board who's arguments you respect do that for me.


Originally posted by Hilston
No. If someone were to seek justification via circumcision, he would certainly have been regarded as "fallen from grace," i.e. made grace of none effect (same word is used in Ro 9:6). But Paul is not accusing any of the believers of doing this. He is making a point using the subjunctive verb: If you were to seek justification by circumcision, Christ would profit you nothing (Gal 5:2). He then addesses the reprobates (not believers), whoever they are among them, who have indeed done this, making a clear distinction between "whosoever of you are justified by the law [of circumcision]" and "we ... [who] wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Note that the former are not Jews, who rightly identified their justification via circumcision.

Not one person on the board who observes Christmas has yet stated that observing Christmas is required of any Christian for salvatory purposes, because it is a Law, or otherwise. It is no different than if one circumcises their child--it is neither here nor there unless is is done for the purpose of justification.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by Lucky

His arguments have been refuted so many times, what else is there to do but watch as he makes a fool of himself? :chuckle:

: passes the popcorn and soda to Lucky :
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How The Christian Should Celebrate Christmas.

Originally posted by novice

Oh my gosh......

That might be the most sickening and stupid thing I have ever read on TOL. Truthsmackers where are you?????? Why is this wacko getting a free pass?

Statements like the one above should put Hilston in the TOL hall of shame and he should be associated with all the other wackos that participate on TOL like Freak or OMEGA or H S G or wickwomen or beanieboy or granite or servent101 etc etc etc.

So celebrating Christmas is worse than abortion eh Hilston?

You might get a pass from everyone else here on TOL but you are not getting one from me. You are a first class idiot and an embarrassment to the Body of Christ. :down:

Where did you come from, part-timer? Anybody who disses me by name needs to at least be in the 2000 post club.:D
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Crow
I'm going to let the one person on this board who's arguments you respect do that for me.

Hilston wrote: No. If someone were to seek justification via circumcision, he would certainly have been regarded as "fallen from grace," i.e. made grace of none effect (same word is used in Ro 9:6). But Paul is not accusing any of the believers of doing this. He is making a point using the subjunctive verb: If you were to seek justification by circumcision, Christ would profit you nothing (Gal 5:2). He then addesses the reprobates (not believers), whoever they are among them, who have indeed done this, making a clear distinction between "whosoever of you are justified by the law [of circumcision]" and "we ... [who] wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Note that the former are not Jews, who rightly identified their justification via circumcision.
What does that have to do with celebrating Christmas, Crow? If you had quoted the question I was answering, you would understand the statement. Here is the original question:

Originally posted by Sozo
Do you believe that everyone who is circumcised has fallen from grace?

Originally posted by Crow
Not one person on the board who observes Christmas has yet stated that observing Christmas is required of any Christian for salvatory purposes, because it is a Law, or otherwise.
Of course! That's not Paul's point. Paul was drawing a contrast between the believer and the unbeliever. He wasn't accusing the believers at Galatia of doing this. Neither am I.

Originally posted by Crow
It is no different than if one circumcises their child--it is neither here nor there unless is is done for the purpose of justification.
There is no correspondence Crow. One can be circumcised non-religiously. One canNOT celebrate Christmas non-religiously. That's the point and that's the offense.
 

novice

Who is the stooge now?
Originally posted by Hilston
Shouldn't you respect my weak faith and refrain from causing me to stumble?
Huh??? You have already stumbled, heck you have fell right to the floor!

Your stumbling and subsequent crash to the floor is all about you insisting that celebrating Christmas is worse than abortion, it has nothing to do with us refuting that point. Is anyone here on TOL begging you to celebrate Christmas Jim? No??? We aren't are we? In fact I have read several people state if you choose not to celebrate Christmas that's fine and dandy! Therefore once again you have shown that you have this real inability to make a valid point and make a fool of yourself for all to see.
 

Crow

New member
Originally posted by Hilston

What does that have to do with celebrating Christmas, Crow? If you had quoted the question I was answering, you would understand the statement. Here is the original question:

Of course! That's not Paul's point. Paul was drawing a contrast between the believer and the unbeliever. He wasn't accusing the believers at Galatia of doing this. Neither am I.

There is no correspondence Crow. One can be circumcised non-religiously. One canNOT celebrate Christmas non-religiously. That's the point and that's the offense.

I know exactly what the original question was, Hilston.

The whole kernel of this argument is whether celebrating Christmas separates a believer from Christ.

It is no different from circumcision in that the core issue is one of why it is being done. And if a person were to celebrate Christmas because they felt it was obligatory, as was and may well still be done in some churches, I would agree with you that it was wrong. I do not see an indication that it would have consequences on one's salvation, but it would be wrong in the sense that we do not earn our salvation by our acts, observances, etc. Those are just acts of flesh.

And there is no harm in giving thanks for Christ coming to us. I do that every day all by my lonesome, and frequently in the company of other Christians and as long as I don't do it from a sense of obligation or believing that it is required for salvation, then I am not making it a Law and trying to earn justification.

Obligitory ritualism is wrong, and I know the effects it has had on Christians--in fact that is one of the reasons that my grandfather left the RCC--he was fed up with "days of obligation" along with several issues related to Mary which aren't applicable to this discussion. He felt like he was just going through motions.

Not one person in this discussion who celebrates does so out of obligation. If one chooses to celebrate, as Christians do today, that is far different from the compulsory observance of the Dispensation of Law.
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by novice
Huh??? You have already stumbled, heck you have fell right to the floor!
So did Barnabas and the Jews accompanying Paul in Gal. 2. That didn't give Peter a pass to disobey the principles of Rom 14. You're a hypocrite, just like Peter was in Antioch.

Originally posted by novice
Your stumbling and subsequent crash to the floor is all about you insisting that celebrating Christmas is worse than abortion, it has nothing to do with us refuting that point. Is anyone here on TOL begging you to celebrate Christmas Jim? No??? We aren't are we?
Of course not. And neither was Peter begging Barnabas and others to observe the food laws he was observing. No matter what you say, novice, your interpretation of Ro 14 makes you a hypocrite.

Originally posted by novice
In fact I have read several people state if you choose not to celebrate Christmas that's fine and dandy!
Based on your own interpretation of the passage, that's not going far enough. Paul said he would never eat meat again if it were to cause a brother to stumble. Your arrogant hypocrisy precludes you from respecting your own interpretation of the scripture. You not only refuse to abstain from Christmas for the sake of the "weaker brother," but you flagrantly flaunt it in the face of the "weaker brother", in spite of your interpretation of those passages.

Originally posted by novice
Therefore once again you have shown that you have this real inability to make a valid point and make a fool of yourself for all to see.
Try to follow the logic, novice. Try to connect the dots. You can keep saying that I've made a fool of myself, but everytime you try to prove it, you're the one that ends up looking the fool.
 

novice

Who is the stooge now?
Originally posted by Hilston
You can keep saying that I've made a fool of myself, but everytime you try to prove it, you're the one that ends up looking the fool.
I don't need to prove it!

You have done an excellent job proving it for me.

No argument should be taken seriously when it includes the notion that celebrating Christmas is more evil than abortion.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Originally posted by Crow

I know exactly what the original question was, Hilston.

The whole kernel of this argument is whether celebrating Christmas separates a believer from Christ.

It is no different from circumcision in that the core issue is one of why it is being done. And if a person were to celebrate Christmas because they felt it was obligatory, as was and may well still be done in some churches, I would agree with you that it was wrong. I do not see an indication that it would have consequences on one's salvation, but it would be wrong in the sense that we do not earn our salvation by our acts, observances, etc. Those are just acts of flesh.

And there is no harm in giving thanks for Christ coming to us. I do that every day all by my lonesome, and frequently in the company of other Christians and as long as I don't do it from a sense of obligation or believing that it is required for salvation, then I am not making it a Law and trying to earn justification.

Obligitory ritualism is wrong, and I know the effects it has had on Christians--in fact that is one of the reasons that my grandfather left the RCC--he was fed up with "days of obligation" along with several issues related to Mary which aren't applicable to this discussion. He felt like he was just going through motions.

Not one person in this discussion who celebrates does so out of obligation. If one chooses to celebrate, as Christians do today, that is far different from the compulsory observance of the Dispensation of Law.
Well stated. :crow: This point has been made dozens of times on this thread but you did a very nice job making even more clear. :up:
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Crow
I know exactly what the original question was, Hilston.

The whole kernel of this argument is whether celebrating Christmas separates a believer from Christ.
That's incorrect, Crow. Nothing can separate a believer from Christ, not even something as egregious as openly denying the Headship of Christ.

Originally posted by Crow
It is no different from circumcision in that the core issue is one of why it is being done.
That's false, Crow. Paul was not worried about the Colossians suddenly thinking that circumcision was required to justify them before God.

Originally posted by Crow
... And if a person were to celebrate Christmas because they felt it was obligatory, as was and may well still be done in some churches, I would agree with you that it was wrong.
This is so basic Crow. No one is suggesting that anyone is celebrating Christmas as an obligation or enforcing that obligation on others. Just as Peter was not eating with the Jews for salvation or compelling others to do so for salvation. Do you people even read your Bibles? Or do you spend all your time on TOL talking about things you're clueless about?

Originally posted by Crow
... I do not see an indication that it would have consequences on one's salvation, but it would be wrong in the sense that we do not earn our salvation by our acts, observances, etc. Those are just acts of flesh.
You really need to catch up to the conversation, Crow. This stuff was dealt with many pages ago.

Originally posted by Crow
And there is no harm in giving thanks for Christ coming to us.
Have I ever said otherwise? Who are you debating here, Crow?

Originally posted by Crow
... I do that every day all by my lonesome, and frequently in the company of other Christians and as long as I don't do it from a sense of obligation or believing that it is required for salvation, then I am not making it a Law and trying to earn justification.
Question: Do you believe Peter was trying to earn justification by eating with the Jews in Antioch (Gal 2)?

Originally posted by Crow
If one chooses to celebrate, as Christians do today, that is far different from the compulsory observance of the Dispensation of Law.
Paul was quite a legalist for rebuking Peter, wasn't he?
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by novice

I don't need to prove it!

You have done an excellent job proving it for me.

No argument should be taken seriously when it includes the notion that celebrating Christmas is more evil than abortion.
I know you are, but what am I. :freak:

Notice how desperate you've become. You have no scriptural arguments to offer. Instead, you resort to cheap shock-value tactics. It's a sure sign of desperation, novice.

Have you repented of violating your interpretation of these verses yet?

Ro 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

If not, why not?
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Knight

Well stated. :crow: This point has been made dozens of times on this thread but you did a very nice job making even more clear. :up:
Knight, do you believe Peter was observing Jewish food laws in Antioch because he suddenly thought it was required for salvation?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Originally posted by Hilston

Knight, do you believe Peter was observing Jewish food laws in Antioch because he suddenly thought it was required for salvation?
Do you really care what I think Jim?

Sorry my man but you are way too "out there" for me. I can't believe some of the stuff you are saying and frankly, it sickens me. I think I will use my energy on other more worthy topics.

Even if you had compelled me into believing Christmas was a sin (which of course is silly) you certainly couldn't compel me into thinking it is worse than abortion. :nono:
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Knight
Do you really care what I think Jim?
I wouldn't have asked if I didn't care. The question still stands.

Originally posted by Knight
Sorry my man but you are way too "out there" for me. I can't believe some of the stuff you are saying and frankly, it sickens me. I think I will use my energy on other more worthy topics.
That's too bad, because these are biblical topics very very worthy of clarification. Paul spent the entire epistle to the Galatians and large parts of Colossians delineating these vital truths. I would think you'd at least respect the important the scriptures place on them.

Originally posted by Knight
Even if you had compelled me into believing Christmas was a sin (which of course is silly) you certainly couldn't compel me into thinking it is worse than abortion. :nono:
This goes further to show that you don't have a high regard for dispensational teachings and prescriptions. Do you believe breaking the Sabbath was a worse sin than abortion in Israel's dispensation?
 

ShadowMaid

New member
Okay, so celebrating Christmas is worse then abortion, because it goes against Christ's teachings... I thought abortion was against His teachings also, only it's the murder of innocent children!!
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Okay, so celebrating Christmas is worse then abortion, because it goes against Christ's teachings... I thought abortion was against His teachings also, only it's the murder of innocent children!!
No, celebrating religious holidays is worse then abortion because it is a direct affront to God by disrespecting and dishonoring the special role He has prescribed for the Body of Christ. Christ died to secure specific and wonderful unique blessings for the Body of Christ, and those who disrespect those blessings and submit to the angelic realm are openly denying Christ as their Head.

To murder an innocent child is evil and sinful. To do so is a sin against that child, the child's parents, society, etc. But be water baptized is a sin against God Himself and dividing against the Body of Christ. So is celebrating Christmas.
 
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