way 2 go
Well-known member
would you say Cornelius was a first for peter ?
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished
why were they astonished ?
Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?
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would you say Cornelius was a first for peter ?
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished
why were they astonished ?
heir
TOL Subscriber
You completely ignore scripture and say Cornelius is in the Body. You don't get to blow by the fact that anyone who is in the Body of Christ got in by trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). And that it's not what the scriptures show Peter preaching to Cornelius. And how could it be when it was a mystery before revealed to and through the apostle Paul Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV?
You also don't get to blow past that everyone who is in the Body of Christ was baptized BY ONE SPIRIT into the one Body. Did the Holy Spirit forget to leave that out when Luke was inspired to mention two baptisms? Please show where it says Cornelius was baptized by one Spirit. As I showed earlier in the thread: there are only two baptisms concerning Corne (Acts 10:44-45 KJV, and Acts 10:47-48 KJV); neither of which were by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). So, it's clear then, from the scriptures that Cornelius was not in the Body of Christ.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, I believe the scripture about who Peter was sent to prior to that (Matthew 10:5-6 KJV) and we even see that in his testimony in Acts 10...Acts 10:42 KJV And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Cornelius is a Gentile, but Peter's message is still the same. It is one of remission of sins (Acts 10:43 KJV) not forgiveness. Not yet... Peter preached in Acts 3 a future message of the blotting out of sins (Acts 3:19-21 KJV).
Yes, more validation that Peter being sent to Cornelius was out of order as Israel was not saved. The King had not returned. They were not yet a kingdom of priests. It was not time to go to all nations. So too, it was out of order that the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out before being water baptized.
And even after they had witnessed that, Peter carried on with his message of water baptism...
Acts 10:47 KJV Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
First of all, It isn't true that he is. You are the one trying to identify him into the Body when their is scriptural evidence to the contrary. He cannot be in the Body when he was not preached the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that one would believe to be baptized into the one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV)
Secondly, falsely placing Cornelius in the Body allows evil men and seducers to try and impose bad doctrine on the Body of Christ even another gospel.
heir
TOL Subscriber
I'm really curious as to why you crossed out some of STP's reply.
Peter's action with Cornelius was the same as his action with Samaritans and Phillip.
Peter was given the keys to the kingdom by Yeshua. The book of Acts is really a book about Paul.
What I see happen in is the promise of the Holy Spirit's arrival in Acts two, and the beginning of the church which began with the Jews. There would have been saved Gentiles and saved Samaritans present but they would have been restricted to the court of the Gentiles and not with the apostles in the upper room.
Then the book of Acts switches narratives to follow its main character Paul. Paul is converted and saved and given his instruction to be a witness to the Gentiles.
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; (Acts 9:15 NASB)
But his story is interrupted by Pete/dream/Cornelius/tongues.
This interruption is for the purpose of showing us how Peter now uses the keys to unlock the gospel to the Gentiles. He used the keys first in the temple, second with the Samaritans
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17 NASB)
and now with the Gentiles so that Paul can begin his ministry of gentile evangelism. It was not until Peter used his keys to unlock the gospel to the Gentiles that Paul could begin his mission to the non Jewish world. From this point on Peter plays a lessor role in Acts.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
Peter was given the keys to the kingdom by Yeshua. The book of Acts is really a book about Paul.
What I see happen in is the promise of the Holy Spirit's arrival in Acts two, and the beginning of the church which began with the Jews. There would have been saved Gentiles and saved Samaritans present but they would have been restricted to the court of the Gentiles and not with the apostles in the upper room.
Then the book of Acts switches narratives to follow its main character Paul. Paul is converted and saved and given his instruction to be a witness to the Gentiles.
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; (Acts 9:15 NASB)
But his story is interrupted by Pete/dream/Cornelius/tongues.
This interruption is for the purpose of showing us how Peter now uses the keys to unlock the gospel to the Gentiles. He used the keys first in the temple, second with the Samaritans
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17 NASB)
and now with the Gentiles so that Paul can begin his ministry of gentile evangelism. It was not until Peter used his keys to unlock the gospel to the Gentiles that Paul could begin his mission to the non Jewish world. From this point on Peter plays a lessor role in Acts.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
SaulToPaul 2
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:noid:
heir
TOL Subscriber
IKR It now reads Paul was sent to the Jew the Greek during Acts. :liberals:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Not sure why anyone would have a problem with Paul going to the Jew first during Acts!
I wonder if the gospel of Christ is still to the Jew first?
heir
TOL Subscriber
It's in the Book as is the why in plain sixth grade English.
I wonder if the gospel of Christ is still to the Jew first?
:jump:
Thank God Paul finished his course with joy to testify the gospel of the grace of God to Gentiles like you and me or we'd all be toast.
I wasn't referring to geography; I was referring to the Gentiles who partook in the promises.
Why do you believe Bob was not?
And where are your verses that state Paul went to the alien Gentiles much later?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Not all Gentiles were in the promise. Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV
It was Pauls' second sending...
Acts 22:21 KJV And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
The remnant was gathered...
Acts 28:27 KJV For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Acts 28:28 KJV Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You really don't need to cop an attitude with me. We can have a civil discussion.
Read Acts 22 carefully. Paul was sent more than once.
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way 2 go
Well-known member
Jews only before the cross
:nono:
the message to Peter is what changed
Act 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.
remission = deliverance, forgiveness, liberty :sigh:
Peter & the 11 were sent
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
the astonishing part is gentiles apart from the law
that's "The body"
yes i know Peter didn't know about the body but God who sent him
did he started it with Paul
Cornelius was used by God to show Peter things had changed
:duh:
gentile christian by faith through grace that's the body
did you just call me EVIL ?:allsmile: /s
heir
TOL Subscriber
With the exception of Peter being sent out of order to Cornelius' house, Peter never preached to any other Gentiles. Acts 2, 3, 4, 5...Peter preached to the Jews only. That's after the cross.
Everyone in the "My church" (the church at Jerusalem) up to this point is still under the law. That's why he says "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation". We can glean from that, that there were no Gentiles prior to that to which Peter's message would have gone to. His ministry up unto that point was "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". We can also see it here (Acts 10:36 KJV). Peter was not suppose to be going to all nations at this time either or it wouldn't be "unlawful" and he would not have had to ask:
Acts 10:29 KJV Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
He would have simply preached to Cornelius without the question. So Cornelius answers Peter:
Acts 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
(Cornelius' prayers and alms had come up for a memorial before God Acts 10:4 KJV~the promise to Abraham Genesis 12:1-3 KJV)
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
Peter perceives and responds
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
It's funny, that he just got done saying God is no respecter of persons and then says:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
(compared to Paul Titus 3:5 KJV)
Remission is not a cure, but looks forward to one. Israel's cure: Acts 3:19-21 KJV.
Nope (Matthew 10:23 KJV)
Fearing God and working righteousness is works.
Of course God knew, but he did not give Peter a new gospel. We've been over this before. Peter preached the same murder indictment against Israel (Acts 10:39 KJV) that he had before, but that God raised Him up the third day (Acts 10:40 KJV) and that through belief in His name they shall receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43 KJV). In Acts 2 Peter preached to "Repent" (of who Jesus Christ was, the Who, the "name") and be baptized identified (in water baptism) for the remission of sins and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That was the order.
But before Peter could finish preaching to Cornelius, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 KJV And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
That's the same gift of the Holy Ghost of Acts 2:38 KJV, but it fell on them BEFORE water baptism-out of order.
They were astonished because they never expected something like that to happen.
Acts 10:46 KJV For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
And even with what had just taken place, Peter preaches water baptism, consistent with the same gospel he preached in Acts 2.
Acts 10:47-48 KJV Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
God used Peter's sending to Cornelius to validate Paul's ministry later; that it was on the up and up.
You were shown "he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him". That's not grace, that's works. You were also shown that Peter preached "through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins". That's not the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that those in the Body trust the Lord believing for salvation. Come on. That's not, "For by grace are ye saved..."
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Salvation was always by grace thru faith heir.
Cornelius was already saved before he heard the gospel, he was a believer and had accepted the content of faith required BC for salvation. The content of faith required for salvation changed thru history beginning in the garden onto Noah's and Abe's and Moses, and Yeshua's but salvation was always by grace thru faith and never by works.
Peter went to Cornelius with the gospel. Paul checked his gospel with Peter and James in Acts 15 to get their approval, to see if they preached the same gospel, they did and affirmed his gospel by not adding to it. If mad is teaching Paul had the gospel before Peter did, it is an error.
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Cornelius was already saved before he heard the gospel, he was a believer and had accepted the content of faith required BC for salvation. The content of faith required for salvation changed thru history beginning in the garden onto Noah's and Abe's and Moses, and Yeshua's but salvation was always by grace thru faith and never by works.
Peter went to Cornelius with the gospel. Paul checked his gospel with Peter and James in Acts 15 to get their approval, to see if they preached the same gospel, they did and affirmed his gospel by not adding to it. If mad is teaching Paul had the gospel before Peter did, it is an error.
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heir
TOL Subscriber
Noah "found grace" in the eyes of the Lord. (Genesis 6:8 KJV).
God told Noah to DO something; to build an ark. Noah prepared an ark at the saving of his house.
Hebrews 11:7 KJV By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
You and I were never asked to DO anything.
That's one of the craziest things I have ever heard anyone say. I guess all of Peter's preaching was all for not. If he was "already saved", Peter wouldn't have preached he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him. If he was "already saved", Peter would have never told him to believe on His name for the remission of sins. There would have been no need to believe for the remission of sins.
Cornelius' prayers and alms had come up for a memorial before God Acts 10:4 KJV~the promise to Abraham~ Genesis 12:1-3 KJV). He was up for a blessing.
While it's true that all salvation, Genesis through Revelation, requires faith; not all salvation in the Bible is/will be by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV). James wrote 2:18 KJV, James 2:20 KJV and James 2:24 KJV
Many (future) wait to go through the trial of their faith: receiveing the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls. Of which salvation the prophets enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto them (notice too, that it is of the grace that should come unto them).
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
That is NOT the same as trusting the Lord's faith and finished work in our place believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. It's a done deal! We didn't DO anything! Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV
I've shown over and over in this thread the gospel that Peter preached to Cornelius.
Peter, James and John didn't know “that gospel” that Paul preached among the Gentiles until he "went up by revelation, and communicated" it unto them . It was THEN (not before) that they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto Paul. It was THEN (not before) that they “perceived the grace” that was given unto Paul!
Galatians 2:1-2 KJV Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Galatians 2:6 KJV But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: They added nothing to Paul?! If they had been preaching the same gospel as religious men would have us to believe all of those years surely THEY must have added something to Paul. According to the scriptures they DIDN'T!
BUT CONTRARIWISE,…!
Galatians 2:7-9 KJVBut contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.The Body of Christ began with the apostle Paul (then Saul), not Peter!
Concerning the gospel: The King James Bible is the final authority. And it says:
Galatians 1:11-KJV But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul could not call it "my gospel" (Romans 2:16 KJV, Romans 16:25 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV) if it was committed unto someone else. The dispensation of the gospel was committed unto Paul (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) not Peter, James or John! It was a mystery before revealed to and through Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-7 KJV).
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth!
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If it was all grace by faith, then Israel would not have been jealous.
Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?
Heir, I will read that later. Because I view this as an error I'm not in a rush to look at it.
Maybe I shouldn't if you are convinced that what you believe is true. I did not get any response from anyone about the significance of the Matthew 12 rejection nor about the kingdom of heaven program. Are those topics going to go unanswered by you?
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Heir, I will read that later. Because I view this as an error I'm not in a rush to look at it.
Maybe I shouldn't if you are convinced that what you believe is true. I did not get any response from anyone about the significance of the Matthew 12 rejection nor about the kingdom of heaven program. Are those topics going to go unanswered by you?
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