annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
On behalf of Irene, I’m happy to help!
So how much weight should be given to an “over-the-shoulder” comment?
chrysostom
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
On behalf of Irene, I’m happy to help!
So how much weight should be given to an “over-the-shoulder” comment?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
just trying to encourage Chrys in his efforts to be disruptive
He loves the tension.
navigation
A Guide
to help us reach our destination. Use it. There are way too many exits. Taking the wrong one can be a challenge without navigation. The biggest problem is having the wrong destination. Do you know where you are located? The navigator should know that. Where do you want to go? That is your decision.
Home
A Guide
to help us reach our destination. Use it. There are way too many exits. Taking the wrong one can be a challenge without navigation. The biggest problem is having the wrong destination. Do you know where you are located? The navigator should know that. Where do you want to go? That is your decision.
Home
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
I finished the chapter on means and ends. Alinsky outlines his relativistic and utilitarian approach to ethics, and while to a certain extent I can't agree with him on either of these philosophies, I don't disagree completely either. I doubt there are are many humans, no matter how vehemently they adhere to the idea of universal truths, who wouldn't bend their ethics to save their lives or the lives of their children. This is the question Alinsky asks: "Does this particular end justify this particular means?" Even when I argued in the past against moral relativism, I understood that a) stealing is wrong and b) I would definitely steal food for my children if they were starving. In a religious sense I also understood that we had to obey God, but that there was no way on God's green earth I would have obeyed God and begun the process of murdering my own child. For what purpose?! What was that lesson supposed to teach?
Here are the two of the most salient ideas I took from the chapter:
"[O]ne's concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with one's distance from the scene of conflict."
That one hit home. How easy it is for, as he calls them (me), "the observers" to opine on the ethics of something they're not personally experiencing.
Second, and related:
"... the secure position in which one possesses the choice of a number of effective and powerful means is always accompanied by that ethical concern so admirably described by Mark Twain as 'The calm confidence of a Christian holding four aces.'"
Here are the two of the most salient ideas I took from the chapter:
"[O]ne's concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with one's distance from the scene of conflict."
That one hit home. How easy it is for, as he calls them (me), "the observers" to opine on the ethics of something they're not personally experiencing.
Second, and related:
"... the secure position in which one possesses the choice of a number of effective and powerful means is always accompanied by that ethical concern so admirably described by Mark Twain as 'The calm confidence of a Christian holding four aces.'"
I agree but now think I understand what it was all about. God was willing to sacrifice His Son to save us. That's it.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Why was that even necessary?
free will, sin, justice, and redemption
your decision
A Destination
that is not predetermined. It starts with hope or what you want. Then comes faith or a belief that you can get what you want. This will be tested, a word you won't find in some bibles. Charity is a big part of the test. Without it you are but a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Many shall be refined, purified, and tested.
Home
A Destination
that is not predetermined. It starts with hope or what you want. Then comes faith or a belief that you can get what you want. This will be tested, a word you won't find in some bibles. Charity is a big part of the test. Without it you are but a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Many shall be refined, purified, and tested.
Home
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
So God killed his Son to show us what mercy looks like?
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Update from Rules for Radicals:
I'm reading the chapter called Tactics now, and it's where he outlines all the rules people (including myself) have quoted from for years. I've noted in the recent past that conservatives, after years of quoting a rule or rules from these "Alinsky tactics" have actually embraced them for their own use. So if they're using them themselves, how can they complain anymore that "the left" uses them?
Anyway, this far into the book I'm understanding why the right needs to maintain its demonization of Alinsky. He understood that those in power would do whatever was necessary to conserve and to grow that power. He was was intelligent, witty, aware of his faults yet accepting of them, keenly observant of the human condition - and he took obvious enjoyment in poking a stick at the powerful at every possibly opportunity.
However - at 3/4 of the way through the book, not a single paean to Lucifer to be found.
I'm reading the chapter called Tactics now, and it's where he outlines all the rules people (including myself) have quoted from for years. I've noted in the recent past that conservatives, after years of quoting a rule or rules from these "Alinsky tactics" have actually embraced them for their own use. So if they're using them themselves, how can they complain anymore that "the left" uses them?
Anyway, this far into the book I'm understanding why the right needs to maintain its demonization of Alinsky. He understood that those in power would do whatever was necessary to conserve and to grow that power. He was was intelligent, witty, aware of his faults yet accepting of them, keenly observant of the human condition - and he took obvious enjoyment in poking a stick at the powerful at every possibly opportunity.
However - at 3/4 of the way through the book, not a single paean to Lucifer to be found.
Well at least you used the word mercy. I deliberately left it out along with grace and forgiveness. You don't get them unless you deserve them. All you have to do to deserve them is ask for them. Don't ask if you don't need them.
We okay with the means. Not the end.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
You don't get off scot free. :chuckle:
You use the the same means if you want to achieve the same ends.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
That's not an answer to the question.
I am answering the questions you should be asking.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
No you're not. You're evading the question because the only answers you have are "because I said so" or "because the Church said so."
Well go ahead and answer your own questions. I will continue to look at the results of the CCHD for my answers. If you are happy with what the CCHD has done, we have nothing in common and nothing to hang an argument on. Good luck with your readings.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Unlike you, I'm not asking questions here that I'm intending to answer myself. I ask you questions because I'm genuinely interested in your answers, or else I wouldn't bother. If you don't want to answer them, I might make a guess as to why.
We have some things in common and some things not in common. I'd say most Americans would say the same and we have to muddle along with that.