Confessions of a Reluctant Catholic

[Derf]

We only have to love them as much as we love ourselves.

You are missing some scripture. Jesus also said to do good to those who hurt you, which is how you love even your enemies. He didn't require us to do good to ourselves first (it was assumed).

 

[chrysostom]

He didn't require us to do good to ourselves first

We were asked to deny ourselves, take up our cross. DUTY

 

[Idolater]

We were asked to deny ourselves, take up our cross. DUTY

$$ Mt 11:28
Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
$$ Mt 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
$$ Mt 11:30
For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

"Yoke" here means duty.

 

[Derf]

We were asked to deny ourselves, take up our cross. DUTY

Since we're supposed to deny ourselves, it seems like it assumes we normally love ourselves. Duty means doing something even when we're uncomfortable (or in danger) doing it. discomfort in denying ourselves equates to loving ourselves normally. But even still, we are told that we save ourselves by denying ourselves. So a logical response of someone who loves himself will be to deny himself in order to save himself.

 

[chrysostom]

So a logical response of someone who loves himself will be to deny himself in order to save himself.

So I should expect the same for my neighbor.

 

[Idolater]

So I should expect the same for my neighbor.

You can objectively size up anyone you want. But you don't know anyone's heart. Also the diabolic << exist >>.

You old fool. I don't mean it in a bad way. But you're an old man, and you're foolish. Not wise.

 

[Derf]

So I should expect the same for my neighbor.

If you require love to enemies to be requited before you offer it, and your enemies oblige you, they are morally superior to you, a Christian. Yet as little Christs, we should be morally superior. Just like Jesus forgave His tormentors during their torments of Him.

 

[chrysostom]

Just like Jesus forgave His tormentors during their torments of Him.

Just like Jesus is a real challenge for me.

 

[Idolater]

Just like Jesus is a real challenge for me.

Every Mass you have the opportunity to partake of His nature.

 

[Derf]

Just like Jesus is a real challenge for me.

To all of us. But we have His Spirit in us, to make it less and less of a challenge each day

 

[Nick M]

Every Mass you have the opportunity to partake of His nature.

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So we are partaking of ourselves? Interesting.

edit: Why doesn't Paul talk about the symbolic passover that represents his death and resurrection on our behalf more often? He rebukes people in Corinth over it. And that is about it. This isn't rhetorical or snarky like above.

 

[Idolater]

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So we are partaking of ourselves? Interesting.

edit: Why doesn't Paul talk about the symbolic passover that represents his death and resurrection on our behalf more often? He rebukes people in Corinth over it. And that is about it. This isn't rhetorical or snarky like above.

I'll take your word for it.

Why doesn't Paul talk about the Eucharist more often? idk. I can only guess. Part of Catholicism is that Catholicism is presupposed in the New Testament, so we believe the Philippians, Colossians, Galatians, Corinthians, and Romans (ecclesial communions) were all celebrating the Eucharist all along and that the institution of the Eucharist was integral and essential to the establishment of a new church community. So the Eucharist was happening whether or not Paul wrote about it, no matter how frequently or rarely he mentioned it. We don't know when the Gospels were written exactly, we know the Gospel of Luke is associated with Paul because when Paul quotes the Lord in 1st Corinthians 11, he uses Luke's phrasing rather than Matthew or Mark's, plus we know Paul and Luke were close.

 

[Derf]

I'll take your word for it.

Why doesn't Paul talk about the Eucharist more often? idk. I can only guess. Part of Catholicism is that Catholicism is presupposed in the New Testament, so we believe the Philippians, Colossians, Galatians, Corinthians, and Romans (ecclesial communions) were all celebrating the Eucharist all along and that the institution of the Eucharist was integral and essential to the establishment of a new church community. So the Eucharist was happening whether or not Paul wrote about it, no matter how frequently or rarely he mentioned it. We don't know when the Gospels were written exactly, we know the Gospel of Luke is associated with Paul because when Paul quotes the Lord in 1st Corinthians 11, he uses Luke's phrasing rather than Matthew or Mark's, plus we know Paul and Luke were close.

Plus, the churches were in the habit of passing along the letters they received directly to those who had not seen them yet.

 

[Nick M]

Part of Catholicism is that Catholicism is presupposed in the New Testament

Presupposing is the problem. I come not but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

were all celebrating the Eucharist all along and that the institution of the Eucharist

There is no institution of symbolism. He stated the symbolism of the Passover to them, while hiding the meaning from them.

So the Eucharist was happening whether or not Paul wrote about it, no matter how frequently or rarely he mentioned it

Read what Paul said again about the Passover during the dispensation of grace. 1 Corinthians 11, without presupposing anything from false teachers in the third century where Paul said let them go to hell.

20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Part of Catholicism is that Catholicism is presupposed in the New Testament

And that's the problem with Catholicism.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Thinking today, about the past years in which I've been a reluctant Catholic. About how maybe "reluctant Catholic" was a good enough way to describe it, and then wouldn't you know, it's already out there, findable in a search, written about in a way that comfortably fits and better describes being a reluctant Catholic than what I could've done. So here she is, Alice McDermott. It's very long, so here's a little bit, but it's enough.

Also: This is for anyone who wants to understand how a lot of Catholics believe. Who doesn't understand why we do. So I'm not gonna spend time arguing Sola Scriptura. This is for the curious, it's not for the haters.

Confessions of a Reluctant Catholic​

... And I, after years of semi-indifference, occasional rejection, political objection, and unshakable associations (no other cure for a sleepless night than a rosary counted off on your fingers, no better solace for unnamed sorrows than a candle lit in an empty church), find myself at middle age a practicing Catholic. A reluctant, resigned, occasionally exasperated but nevertheless practicing Catholic with no thought, or hope, of ever being otherwise.​

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I must confess (it’s a genetic thing, no doubt) that it occurs to me that it doesn’t bode well for our church at this millennium to have the likes of me as any kind of standard-bearer, and I offer this account of my own religious history only because it strikes me that it is similar to the religious history of many of us now middle-agers born into the Catholic faith. I offer you my own religious evolution not because it illustrates a triumph of faith but because it provides, perhaps, a place from which to talk about what brings us back, what leads us middle-aged born Catholics finally to choose the faith we were given from the very first moment of our lives. To a church we have, at various times in our lives, seen as flawed, irrelevant, outdated, impossible, and impossible to leave behind. . . .​

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Catholicism, I began to see, was also mine, inextricably mine, the fabric of my life and my thoughts. It was the native language of my spirit, the way in which I had from the beginning thought about faith. And while I could acknowledge that there were indeed other languages for faith and that it may well be that those languages were more effective, less burdened by nonessentials, perhaps even superior to the language the Catholic church had provided me, I would have to live another life entirely in order to know them and to feel them as deeply or as inevitably as I knew and felt my Catholic faith. Resignation and delight: I am a Catholic after all. My only obligation, my profound obligation, is to make the best of it. . . . .​

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It is not always easy to love the church, but then again, in my experience, it is not always easy to love anyone.​

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Sounds pretty retarded.