Conversation with Knight about losing faith

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Idolater

Well-known member
would you be comfortable using the words "dumb", "stupid", "moron", "idiot" in the company of parents of a child who was retarded?
Good question. I use all of those words in the company of my children, but when you put it to me this way, I hesitate, and have to think about it. And I use all of those words in the company of my own children. :think: Good question, again.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
Good question. I use all of those words in the company of my children, but when you put it to me this way, I hesitate, and have to think about it. And I use all of those words in the company of my own children. :think: Good question, again.

my two sons have disabilities, one nephew took his life to end the pain of struggling with his and another nephew is on the spectrum and will never be able to live independently.

Additionally, one of my teaching certifications is Special Ed, so i was trained in that and worked in the field occasionally

i would not hesitate to use the word "retarded" when describing one of my students with what NYS now refers to as "developmentally delayed", either in discussing his case professionally with educational coworkers or parents

i also would not hesitate to stop other children from using "retarded" disparagingly or in a mean-spirited manner, when referring to a fellow student who was developmentally delayed

but i wouldn't stop them from referring to idiots on twitter for example, or in congress, as "retards", in the belief that using it that way was denigrating to those who actually are developmentally delayed

not any more than i'd stop a student from saying "Governor Cuomo is morally crippled" in the belief that using that term in that manner would be hurtful to those who have musculo-skeletal disabilities

or stopping someone from referring to governor cuomo as a "psycho" or a "head case" because those terms might possibly be hurtful to someone who truly is struggling with psychoses or other mental disorders
 

Idolater

Well-known member
I definitely would.
My son has been diagnosed as profoundly retarded and severely autistic.

my two sons have disabilities, one nephew took his life to end the pain of struggling with his and another nephew is on the spectrum and will never be able to live independently.

Additionally, one of my teaching certifications is Special Ed, so i was trained in that and worked in the field occasionally

i would not hesitate to use the word "retarded" when describing one of my students with what NYS now refers to as "developmentally delayed", either in discussing his case professionally with educational coworkers or parents

i also would not hesitate to stop other children from using "retarded" disparagingly or in a mean-spirited manner, when referring to a fellow student who was developmentally delayed

but i wouldn't stop them from referring to idiots on twitter for example, or in congress, as "retards", in the belief that using it that way was denigrating to those who actually are developmentally delayed

not any more than i'd stop a student from saying "Governor Cuomo is morally crippled" in the belief that using that term in that manner would be hurtful to those who have musculo-skeletal disabilities

or stopping someone from referring to governor cuomo as a "psycho" or a "head case" because those terms might possibly be hurtful to someone who truly is struggling with psychoses or other mental disorders
I think that the word is a fine word, like how the variations of the -ubar word are all fine words. They convey meaning that other words do not and perhaps just cannot convey.

In considering the R word, my thoughts are that the image it depicts is very clear, and so using the R word is very plain, and efficient, as far as verbal communication goes. If I imagine all those people who are clinically diagnosed as some variation of the R word, and then think what types of thoughts, words, and choices that I would expect from them, and also what I would not expect from them, then the idea is very useful in sizing up what I'm seeing from someone, irl or on social media.

If someone is saying something that I would expect to come from that cluster of people, then it is immensely efficient to just say so, to invoke this word, the R word.

I think that the idea conveyed is something like the following. "You are acting /thinking /talking like people who are legitimately diagnosed as the R word. Wake up."

I remain torn about whether to try to excavate the word from my thoughts. Right now, it appears there sometimes, because as I said, it is such a fine word, and it expresses an idea that no other word does. But I don't like censoring myself in what I say and write, so I'm struggling through how to see the R word myself.
 

God's Truth

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I think that the word is a fine word, like how the variations of the -ubar word are all fine words. They convey meaning that other words do not and perhaps just cannot convey.

In considering the R word, my thoughts are that the image it depicts is very clear, and so using the R word is very plain, and efficient, as far as verbal communication goes. If I imagine all those people who are clinically diagnosed as some variation of the R word, and then think what types of thoughts, words, and choices that I would expect from them, and also what I would not expect from them, then the idea is very useful in sizing up what I'm seeing from someone, irl or on social media.

If someone is saying something that I would expect to come from that cluster of people, then it is immensely efficient to just say so, to invoke this word, the R word.

I think that the idea conveyed is something like the following. "You are acting /thinking /talking like people who are legitimately diagnosed as the R word. Wake up."

I remain torn about whether to try to excavate the word from my thoughts. Right now, it appears there sometimes, because as I said, it is such a fine word, and it expresses an idea that no other word does. But I don't like censoring myself in what I say and write, so I'm struggling through how to see the R word myself.

You seem like an extremely thoughtful and kind person.
When my son first got diagnosed as autistic and retarded, I couldn't accept it, and was determined to work with him and make him normal. By the time he was ten years old it was obvious he is retarded and would always be that way. I have been through some tough times with him and there probably isn't anyone much more retarded than him. When out in public, an older woman called him 'stupid', another time someone said I should keep my animal at home. Many different terms are out there now, and I am not interested in trying to sugarcoat anything now. I am a good person and use that word very accurately. Is 'animal' a bad word, or did a bad person use that word in a bad way? The later, of course.

I do think I have earned the right to use the word 'retarded' if I so please. What gets me is people like TownHeretic trying to school me or anyone else on it. TH is a mod on another site and let another member repeatedly, every day, ask me if I had a comprehension problem, and if English was my second language; and he would constantly say I had encoding problems. So one day I asked him if he was retarded, seeing as how that is really what he was trying to call me. TH then private messaged me about the word. Really? TH needs to stop trying to find an opportunity to jump on me. Town Heretic wants to tell me how to make friends? No thanks. He can't even make a righteous judgment about a good person such as myself and rightly stand up for the truth.
 

God's Truth

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my two sons have disabilities, one nephew took his life to end the pain of struggling with his and another nephew is on the spectrum and will never be able to live independently.

Additionally, one of my teaching certifications is Special Ed, so i was trained in that and worked in the field occasionally

i would not hesitate to use the word "retarded" when describing one of my students with what NYS now refers to as "developmentally delayed", either in discussing his case professionally with educational coworkers or parents

i also would not hesitate to stop other children from using "retarded" disparagingly or in a mean-spirited manner, when referring to a fellow student who was developmentally delayed

but i wouldn't stop them from referring to idiots on twitter for example, or in congress, as "retards", in the belief that using it that way was denigrating to those who actually are developmentally delayed

not any more than i'd stop a student from saying "Governor Cuomo is morally crippled" in the belief that using that term in that manner would be hurtful to those who have musculo-skeletal disabilities

or stopping someone from referring to governor cuomo as a "psycho" or a "head case" because those terms might possibly be hurtful to someone who truly is struggling with psychoses or other mental disorders

I remember after being told my son was retarded, one of the schools he went to tried to change it to 'developmentally delayed'. I asked them if they thought he was going to 'catch up'. hahaha I mean they said he was 'delayed', right?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Just type in the search bar 'definition of wit'. It will tell you that it is about intelligence, mental sharpness, common sense, understanding, etc.

And some have that more in abundance than others. It doesn't make the trolls "retarded" does it? It just means they can't come up with anything besides calling others retards. Ironic, sure.
 

God's Truth

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And some have that more in abundance than others. It doesn't make the trolls "retarded" does it? It just means they can't come up with anything besides calling others retards. Ironic, sure.

Yeah, you think you are real inventive about insulting people, and for that you are proud?
 

ok doser

Well-known member
I remember after being told my son was retarded, one of the schools he went to tried to change it to 'developmentally delayed'. I asked them if they thought he was going to 'catch up'. hahaha I mean they said he was 'delayed', right?


yeah, i don't the new term either, for the same reason - as someone with a STEM background, i dislike the implied suggestion that developmentally, they're gonna get there eventually

in NYS, it's the mandated term in education - in health care we use the more scientifically logical term "intellectual disability" or impairment
 

ok doser

Well-known member
I think that the word is a fine word, like how the variations of the -ubar word are all fine words. They convey meaning that other words do not and perhaps just cannot convey.

I do think I have earned the right to use the word 'retarded' if I so please. What gets me is people like TownHeretic trying to school me or anyone else on it.

you two may be familiar with this, but i find it fascinating - people like town are arguing to control my language because it may be offensive to some undefined person somewhere, somewhen - but he thinks nothing of the use of the terms "moron", "idiot", "cretin" and "imbecile"

wiki said:
Up until around the 1960s, the terms "moron", "idiot", "cretin" and "imbecile" were all genuine terms to refer to people with mental intellectual disabilities and low intelligence. These words were discontinued in that form when concerns arose that they were offensive, with "retard" and "retarded" replacing them.[6] Since then, the terms "handicapped" (United States) and "disabled" (United Kingdom) have replaced "retard" and "retarded". In 2010, despite not typically being used in official context, "mental retardation" was still written in many of the United States' laws and documents, considered by many to be outdated. Barack Obama replaced the term with "intellectual disability" with the approval of Rosa's Law - which would require these laws and documents to phase out the terms with the "intellectual disability" term.[7]

Today, despite possessing a similar history to the former medical words "moron", "idiot", "cretin" and "imbecile" (all considered acceptable terms to refer to a foolish or stupid person in the present day), "retard" and "retarded" remain controversial when used in this form, mainly due to the word having a more recent history as a medical term.
 

ok doser

Well-known member

ok doser

Well-known member
(people that artie disagrees with, but can't logically and rationally refute) lack the wit to (respond in manner that artie finds acceptable)

They lack the wit? Are you saying they are retarded?

yes, of course - he's saying that they are idiots, morons, cretins, imbeciles

he is being dismissive of what he perceives to be their lack of intelligence



Just type in the search bar 'definition of wit'. It will tell you that it is about intelligence, mental sharpness, common sense, understanding, etc.

And some have that more in abundance than others. It doesn't make (those posters with whom artie disagrees but can't refute logically or rationally) "retarded" does it?

assuming the first, then yes, the second automatically applies, by definition

It just means they can't come up with anything besides calling others retards. Ironic, sure.

as ironic as your inability to come up with anything more intelligent than "troll" :chuckle:
 
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ok doser

Well-known member
Just type in the search bar 'definition of wit'. It will tell you that it is about intelligence, mental sharpness, common sense, understanding, etc.

And some have that more in abundance than others.

and those that have it in greater abundance would be called "advanced"

and those who have it in lesser abundance would be called "retarded"


and those that are assumed to have it in normal abundance, but choose to make statements that indicate that they have it in lesser abundance are rightly called out for being retarded, or making retarded posts. :)
 
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