Though he may not have held to A9D distinctions to the extent that, say, we each understand them, personally, from what little I know of John Nelson Darby, I view him as one of our own, as much as the Apostle Paul was.
Darby’s having been established in the mutual faith is there in his writings; just not as fully developed as only later refinements in understanding make possible over time. But time eventually robs all men of said further distinctions; leaving any further refining for those who come after those men, and on their shoulders.
Whenever I reflect on these men, I have one same response :e4e:
The following are some of Darby's thoughts on the Apostle Paul as to Israel's status...
I have Tetelestai to thank for this thread. The fool has so often ranted against Darby, that I ended up fulfilling my own words to him "thanks for putting Darby's name out there; the more astute will look him up for themselves, and find you the fool you are."
Well, I did that, and found the following morsel, from one of our own: John Nelson Darby; much maligned by our common foes. Enjoy
I posted the words, because links at times can end up no longer accessible down the road some.
Here is the link, which contains the longer article.
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/exp...ed-writings-of-j-n-darby-expository-5/la62940
Keep in mind Darby wrote the following almost two hundred years ago…
Was the rejection then of Israel final? Surely not. The apostle then gives three proofs that it was not final rejection: a remnant was owned now; the reception of the Gentiles, to provoke the Jews to jealousy, not therefore to reject them; and, finally, the testimony that the Redeemer would yet come to Zion and turn away ungodliness from Jacob, and so Israel be saved as a whole-" all Israel "-not merely the Jew, nor yet as a remnant. With this the like responsibility of the Gentile is revealed. First, then (as himself of Israel according to the flesh, and blessed), he declares God has not cast away Israel; but as in the days of Elijah, when he even pleaded against them as wholly adversaries to God and His prophet, a remnant according to the election by grace had been preserved, so now, of which he, Paul, was a proof. But "if by grace, not by works, otherwise grace was no more grace." Israel had not obtained what they sought amiss, but the election had obtained it, and the rest were blinded. And so it was written, as Moses testifies (Deut. 29:4), and David, in spirit, in judgment on their rejection of Christ (Psa. 69:22, 23)-from the close of their history in the wilderness dealt with in patience till Messiah was rejected; and they now stumbled at the stumbling-stone and were blinded. But was it that they might fall? Was this God's purpose about them? Nay, but their fall was the occasion of salvation to the Gentiles to provoke them to jealousy.
This is the second proof it was no final purpose to cast them off. It was ordered to provoke them to jealousy, that is, not to cast them off. And so the apostle labored. His service to the Gentiles he magnified as tending to this; so far was he from thinking little of Israel. For if their casting away was the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their restoration and fullness? This leads the apostle to bring out the relative position of Jew and Gentile as to the place of promise in this world-a most important point, and bringing out the real position of the Gentile professing body in this world; and into this I must enter a little.
When, after the flood, men had (casting off God) set up to make themselves a name, that they might not be scattered, God scattered them in judgment and formed them into nations. They gave themselves to idolatry, and God called Abraham (Josh. 24)-when they were in this state-and made him the root of a separate family in which the promises were according to the flesh, or in Christ in a special way by grace. Up to that there had been, for good, no head of a race or family. For Adam was the father of sinners; Abraham, of the seed of God in the world. In him election, promise, and calling were thus established-not merely individually in grace, but as a root and tree of promises. He was the first-fruit, the root. The natural tree was Israel. Some of the branches, for he will say no more, were broken off. It is looked at as a continuing tree of promise, and Gentiles by grace grafted in in their place, to partake with them of the root and fatness of the olive tree. We have not here Jew and Gentile brought into one new man-one body in Christ; not a body united to Christ in heaven, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile; nor a mystery hidden from ages and generations, but Israel, the olive tree of promise, subsisting from Abraham, in possession of the promise, and now some broken off from the place where they were because of unbelief. The root remained in the same tree where they were, and Gentiles were grafted in among them; for they were not natural branches, but only had their standing by faith.
The Gentiles were not to be high-minded, but fear. God had not spared the natural branches; what of the Gentile, who was only grafted in? It is not the church as the body of Christ. There is no breaking off there. Then the Gentile is fully warned, and shown the principle of God's dealings- the goodness and severity of God on them which fell, the Israelitish branches cut off; " In thee goodness, if thou continue in his goodness." Otherwise the Gentile branches would be broken off, as the Jewish. Have they so continued? Has Gentile profession continued in the faith and walk once delivered to the saints? If not, it will be cut off, as the Jews were-solemn word and warning to Christendom.
But the tree of promise remains, and the Jewish branches will be grafted in again into their own olive tree-the original place of Abrahamic promise, "for God is able to graft them in again." Not again into the church; for, so far from being there, they were broken off when it was founded (as touching the gospel, enemies, to let in the Gentiles); but still, for the fathers' sake, loved as a people chosen of God, elect ones- enemies as touching the gospel; that is, Jews (God's chosen people as such), but broken off for unbelief, as the Gentiles in similar case would be, and the Jews grafted in again. The Jewish system closed, we know, to let in the Gentiles. The Gentile will close, to let in the Jews back as such to the place of promise, which will then indeed extend, in its own way, over the earth. Not that there was any failure, nor could be, as to God's accomplishing His own work of grace; but blindness in part had happened to Israel till the fullness of the Gentiles had come in, all the Gentiles who had part in Christ's glory-the true church, in a word-what completed the number thus brought in by the gospel.
Then the Gentile history of grace and the church would cease, and Israel be saved as Israel, as a nation (which of course cannot be while the church time is going on, where there is neither Jew nor Greek); and not only the Jews but all Israel; when Christ should come, the Deliverer, out of Zion-not from heaven to take to heaven, but turning away ungodliness from Jacob in the place of His power on the earth. The Gentile professing system will be cut off, unless popery and infidelity be continuing in God's goodness. And, note here, it is not God's goodness continuing. Only just then it is displayed in the fullest way; the fullness of the Gentiles will be come in, and taken up then to heavenly glory. But as a system on earth, they will not have continued in God's goodness, and, as such, they will be cut off. These are the ways of God on the earth, not the security of the saints for heaven. There is a place of promise and blessing into which men are introduced; and they outwardly partake of what can be participated in on earth, but are not necessarily really partakers of Christ; Heb. 6.
God's covenant to take away Israel's sins is sure. It shall be accomplished when Christ comes; for, note, the apostle speaks of Christ in Zion in a time yet to come; for God's gifts and calling suffer no change or setting aside, and Israel is His, by gift and calling, as a people. " As touching the gospel, they are enemies” the now rejected nation; but, as touching election, ever and unchangeably loved as a people, and that in connection, not with law, but with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The law was conditionally blessing: "If ye will obey my voice,... ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me." With Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, it was purpose, and unconditional gift and calling. This difference runs through scripture. Dan. 9 refers to Moses; in Lev. 26:42, it is Jacob and Abraham; so in Ex. 32:13; and in many other places. The final restoration of Israel will be on the ground of the promises made to the fathers, "for his mercy endureth forever."
But there was a display of God's wisdom in this, which the apostle does not forget. Israel had promises. If they had come in on the ground of these, it would be so far a right, though grace had originally given them. But they would not, but rejected Christ, in whom all is to be fulfilled, and thus they became a mere object of mercy, like Gentiles, though God was faithful to fulfill them. As the Gentiles had been unbelieving, and mercy had been the only ground of their entering in, so now the Jews had not believed in the mercy shown to the Gentiles, had rejected the grace that let them in, and were mere objects of sovereign mercy themselves.
Darby’s having been established in the mutual faith is there in his writings; just not as fully developed as only later refinements in understanding make possible over time. But time eventually robs all men of said further distinctions; leaving any further refining for those who come after those men, and on their shoulders.
Whenever I reflect on these men, I have one same response :e4e:
The following are some of Darby's thoughts on the Apostle Paul as to Israel's status...
I have Tetelestai to thank for this thread. The fool has so often ranted against Darby, that I ended up fulfilling my own words to him "thanks for putting Darby's name out there; the more astute will look him up for themselves, and find you the fool you are."
Well, I did that, and found the following morsel, from one of our own: John Nelson Darby; much maligned by our common foes. Enjoy
I posted the words, because links at times can end up no longer accessible down the road some.
Here is the link, which contains the longer article.
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/exp...ed-writings-of-j-n-darby-expository-5/la62940
Keep in mind Darby wrote the following almost two hundred years ago…
Spoiler
Was the rejection then of Israel final? Surely not. The apostle then gives three proofs that it was not final rejection: a remnant was owned now; the reception of the Gentiles, to provoke the Jews to jealousy, not therefore to reject them; and, finally, the testimony that the Redeemer would yet come to Zion and turn away ungodliness from Jacob, and so Israel be saved as a whole-" all Israel "-not merely the Jew, nor yet as a remnant. With this the like responsibility of the Gentile is revealed. First, then (as himself of Israel according to the flesh, and blessed), he declares God has not cast away Israel; but as in the days of Elijah, when he even pleaded against them as wholly adversaries to God and His prophet, a remnant according to the election by grace had been preserved, so now, of which he, Paul, was a proof. But "if by grace, not by works, otherwise grace was no more grace." Israel had not obtained what they sought amiss, but the election had obtained it, and the rest were blinded. And so it was written, as Moses testifies (Deut. 29:4), and David, in spirit, in judgment on their rejection of Christ (Psa. 69:22, 23)-from the close of their history in the wilderness dealt with in patience till Messiah was rejected; and they now stumbled at the stumbling-stone and were blinded. But was it that they might fall? Was this God's purpose about them? Nay, but their fall was the occasion of salvation to the Gentiles to provoke them to jealousy.
This is the second proof it was no final purpose to cast them off. It was ordered to provoke them to jealousy, that is, not to cast them off. And so the apostle labored. His service to the Gentiles he magnified as tending to this; so far was he from thinking little of Israel. For if their casting away was the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their restoration and fullness? This leads the apostle to bring out the relative position of Jew and Gentile as to the place of promise in this world-a most important point, and bringing out the real position of the Gentile professing body in this world; and into this I must enter a little.
When, after the flood, men had (casting off God) set up to make themselves a name, that they might not be scattered, God scattered them in judgment and formed them into nations. They gave themselves to idolatry, and God called Abraham (Josh. 24)-when they were in this state-and made him the root of a separate family in which the promises were according to the flesh, or in Christ in a special way by grace. Up to that there had been, for good, no head of a race or family. For Adam was the father of sinners; Abraham, of the seed of God in the world. In him election, promise, and calling were thus established-not merely individually in grace, but as a root and tree of promises. He was the first-fruit, the root. The natural tree was Israel. Some of the branches, for he will say no more, were broken off. It is looked at as a continuing tree of promise, and Gentiles by grace grafted in in their place, to partake with them of the root and fatness of the olive tree. We have not here Jew and Gentile brought into one new man-one body in Christ; not a body united to Christ in heaven, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile; nor a mystery hidden from ages and generations, but Israel, the olive tree of promise, subsisting from Abraham, in possession of the promise, and now some broken off from the place where they were because of unbelief. The root remained in the same tree where they were, and Gentiles were grafted in among them; for they were not natural branches, but only had their standing by faith.
The Gentiles were not to be high-minded, but fear. God had not spared the natural branches; what of the Gentile, who was only grafted in? It is not the church as the body of Christ. There is no breaking off there. Then the Gentile is fully warned, and shown the principle of God's dealings- the goodness and severity of God on them which fell, the Israelitish branches cut off; " In thee goodness, if thou continue in his goodness." Otherwise the Gentile branches would be broken off, as the Jewish. Have they so continued? Has Gentile profession continued in the faith and walk once delivered to the saints? If not, it will be cut off, as the Jews were-solemn word and warning to Christendom.
But the tree of promise remains, and the Jewish branches will be grafted in again into their own olive tree-the original place of Abrahamic promise, "for God is able to graft them in again." Not again into the church; for, so far from being there, they were broken off when it was founded (as touching the gospel, enemies, to let in the Gentiles); but still, for the fathers' sake, loved as a people chosen of God, elect ones- enemies as touching the gospel; that is, Jews (God's chosen people as such), but broken off for unbelief, as the Gentiles in similar case would be, and the Jews grafted in again. The Jewish system closed, we know, to let in the Gentiles. The Gentile will close, to let in the Jews back as such to the place of promise, which will then indeed extend, in its own way, over the earth. Not that there was any failure, nor could be, as to God's accomplishing His own work of grace; but blindness in part had happened to Israel till the fullness of the Gentiles had come in, all the Gentiles who had part in Christ's glory-the true church, in a word-what completed the number thus brought in by the gospel.
Then the Gentile history of grace and the church would cease, and Israel be saved as Israel, as a nation (which of course cannot be while the church time is going on, where there is neither Jew nor Greek); and not only the Jews but all Israel; when Christ should come, the Deliverer, out of Zion-not from heaven to take to heaven, but turning away ungodliness from Jacob in the place of His power on the earth. The Gentile professing system will be cut off, unless popery and infidelity be continuing in God's goodness. And, note here, it is not God's goodness continuing. Only just then it is displayed in the fullest way; the fullness of the Gentiles will be come in, and taken up then to heavenly glory. But as a system on earth, they will not have continued in God's goodness, and, as such, they will be cut off. These are the ways of God on the earth, not the security of the saints for heaven. There is a place of promise and blessing into which men are introduced; and they outwardly partake of what can be participated in on earth, but are not necessarily really partakers of Christ; Heb. 6.
God's covenant to take away Israel's sins is sure. It shall be accomplished when Christ comes; for, note, the apostle speaks of Christ in Zion in a time yet to come; for God's gifts and calling suffer no change or setting aside, and Israel is His, by gift and calling, as a people. " As touching the gospel, they are enemies” the now rejected nation; but, as touching election, ever and unchangeably loved as a people, and that in connection, not with law, but with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The law was conditionally blessing: "If ye will obey my voice,... ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me." With Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, it was purpose, and unconditional gift and calling. This difference runs through scripture. Dan. 9 refers to Moses; in Lev. 26:42, it is Jacob and Abraham; so in Ex. 32:13; and in many other places. The final restoration of Israel will be on the ground of the promises made to the fathers, "for his mercy endureth forever."
But there was a display of God's wisdom in this, which the apostle does not forget. Israel had promises. If they had come in on the ground of these, it would be so far a right, though grace had originally given them. But they would not, but rejected Christ, in whom all is to be fulfilled, and thus they became a mere object of mercy, like Gentiles, though God was faithful to fulfill them. As the Gentiles had been unbelieving, and mercy had been the only ground of their entering in, so now the Jews had not believed in the mercy shown to the Gentiles, had rejected the grace that let them in, and were mere objects of sovereign mercy themselves.