I am breaking up your manuscript of a post
I don't mind if you break up my post.
I DO mind if you ignore key points that I make within that post.
because I need to spend some time and space on many of your statements,
I, for one, am not in any hurry. Take your time to respond. I can wait.
and then we would have a tome.
I'm what you call a "heavy hitter" here on TOL. Get me going on a topic, and my posts can very quickly exceed the character limit.
It's a sign that I'm enjoying having the conversation, because I'm putting the time and effort into putting together such a post.
So get used to long posts.
Very unpleasant on a forum.
A forum is the best place for such long posts, especially a forum like TOL where the goal is centered around finding out the truth of matters. Lengthy posts indeed.
But if you're that scared of long posts, definitely don't go read the Battle Royale threads on TOL. There's a couple of doozies in there.
To begin with you beg the question of a logical fallacy
"Begging the question" IS the logical fallacy.
when you assume that by the Dispersion that it is referring only to Jews.
Except I'm not begging the question.
The context excludes anyone but Jews from being the addressees:
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
“The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,”
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation
, His own special people
, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;who once were not a people but are now the people of God
, who had not obtained mercy
but now have obtained mercy
.Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles
, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. - 1 Peter 2:4-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:4-12&version=NKJV
Nation... His own special people... who once were not a people but are now the people of God... mercy... among the Gentiles...
None of these things have any significance to Gentiles or the Body of Christ, but they are ALL things that have to do with Israel.
1) Israel is a nation, God's chosen (special) people, who once were not a people (the nation of Israel didn't exist before God chose Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (AKA Israel)) but are now the people of God (Israel is "the people of God").
2) Mercy is only relevant when there is a punishment that someone deserves, but the judge has decided to not punish them. It has everything to do with the people of the law, Israel. Grace isn't mentioned here in this passage, because grace has very little to do with laws, and it's for people who don't deserve anything to receive something as a free gift.
3) You don't talk to people who are Gentiles and say to them while they are on a pilgrimage, "while you are among the gentiles..."
What's more, I quoted Galatians 2:7-9 in my previous post to you for a reason, that reason being that Peter and the others agreed to only go to the circumcision (again, another term that describes Israel), while Paul agreed to go only to the Gentiles.
By the way, something else to note: NOT ONCE IN ANY OF PAUL'S WRITINGS does he use the term priest or priesthood. If Peter and Paul are talking about the same group of people, then why wouldn't they use similar language? (Hint: They would use similar language.) Instead, Peter and Paul refer to the people they write to differently, and talk about Jews (in the case of Paul) and Gentiles (in the case of Peter, et al) as a group other than the one he considers himself a part of. In other words, there are two distinct groups of believers in the New Testament. Jews and proselytes (with a distinction between Jews and Gentiles), and believers in the Body of Christ (in which no distinction is made between Jew or Gentile).
If you have a good study Bible, to make a more concise yet condensed study than lengthy historical texts, one that has a thorough introduction to chapters and offers the various views, on such things as date and occasion, genre and literary features, characteristics and themes etc. some of these misconceptions can be cleared up before we even begin reading the book.
Why would I read someone's opinions on what scripture says when I can just read the Bible plainly?
I'm not saying there wouldn't be any value in reading such things as you suggest, but if I want to understand the basics, let's start with scripture, not man's opinions about it.
The letter is addressed to Christians, whatever their ethnic background---in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia Asia and Bithynia.
More question begging.
What verse 1 says is "pilgrims of the dispersion." It does not say "Christians." The authors of the Bible are very particular in how they word things. There's a reason for not calling them "Christians." The most likely reason (and the one that fits the rest of scripture the most) is that they were not members of the Body of Christ, but Jews who had gone on a pilgrimage throughout the world.
Do you really suppose that it was to Jews only.
See reasons 1, 2, and 3 above under where I quote 1 Peter 2:4-12 for why we KNOW it was directed at Jewish believers.
It was to the pilgrims of the body of Christ, Christians,
More question begging without evidence.
who were dispersed to all these places because of persecution.
What persecution were members of the Body of Christ suffering that would cause them to scatter throughout the world?
On the other hand, do you think there might be historical evidence of Jews being scattered due to some reason?
Peter was a Jew. His use of the designation dispersion is a direct and natural comparison to the dispersion of the Jews as a result of the Babylonian exile.
Which is something that Gentiles of that time would likely have no understanding about. Why use a term that has no relation to anything to do with the people you're talking to?
|A diaspora (/daɪˈæspərə/ dye-AS-pər-ə) is a scattered population whose origin lies in a separate geographic locale. Historically, the word diaspora was used to refer to the mass dispersion of a population from its indigenous territories, specifically the dispersion of Jews. Whilst the word was originally used to describe the forced displacement of certain peoples, "diasporas" is now generally used to describe those who identify with a "homeland", but live outside of it.|
The people scattered abroad identify with their homeland of Israel, from whence Peter is writing, but live outside of Israel (as indicated by 1 Peter 1:1).
You do realize that the very "dispersion of the Jews as a result of the Babylonian exile" is the one Peter is referring to by calling them "diaspora," right? They're the descendants of those who were dispersed as a result of the Babylonian exile. Ever heard of the term "synecdoche"?
There are statements in the letter that indicate there were many Gentile believers to whom this letter was also addressed.
There have always been Gentiles who have converted and become proselytes. So what?
1:18 "aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers" is hardly fitting for Jews.
Which is referring to the ancestors of, you guessed it, the Jews.
The sins listed in 4:3 were more typical of Gentiles than the Jewish people.
So what? The fact that he refers to the Gentiles at all, and comparing himself and the group he's talking to TO the Gentiles should tell you that the people he's talking to, including himself, ARE NOT GENTILES!
have spent enough of our
past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles
walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. - 1 Peter 4:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter4:3&version=NKJV
"In doing the will of the Gentiles" is saying the same thing as "doing as the Gentiles do."
In 1 Pet 2:9-10 Peter applies OT terms for Israel to the church.
Israel was called a church LOOOONG before the Body of Christ was ever called the church.
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
- Matthew 16:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew16:18&version=NKJV
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
- Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV
This asserts the continuation of true Israel in Christ (God's people, Jew and Gentile alike)the one people of God. This is not a proof text. It is a text that tells us something.
The only thing being asserted here are your a priori beliefs, and they are being asserted without sufficient evidence.
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with His blood:
Chosen... Sanctified... to be obedient . . . and sprinkled with His blood...
All terms and phrases that have SPECIFIC RELEVANCE to ISRAEL, and which have NO RELEVANCE AT ALL to Gentiles...