Drug Dealing and the Bible

Nazaroo

New member
How Jeremysdemo perceives Nazaroo:

images


"Damn! Those clever pot-smoking smurfs! When will they convert?"
 
Last edited:

Nazaroo

New member
ya we wouldn't want anything that's cheap to produce, natural and cures cancer lying about....most of all hide it from the kids koo-kooka-choo mrs .Robinson....

keep shinin

jerm :cool:


Boy, before you were just an annoyance.

But telling people who are physically ill that marijuana cures cancer is really over the top.

Its not just bad taste, its playing with people's hearts and lives.
In the end, you're playing with fire - God's wrath.

If you had just left it at "marijuana can relieve pain or alleviate difficult symptoms" for this or that illness
(migraines, eating disorders, side-effects of chemotherapy etc.) you might have had both plausibility and sincerity.

Now you've just exposed yourself for either the lunatic or charlatan that you are.

Can you really name one person "cured of cancer" by taking pot?

Have you got one clinical case, one study, one group of test-data to support this?

Or are you insane, playing with people's hopes and hearts,
only to break their hearts with disappointment, not to mention
the stress and anguish you have dumped on their families.

Please explain.
 

jeremysdemo

New member
Boy, before you were just an annoyance.

But telling people who are physically ill that marijuana cures cancer is really over the top.

Its not just bad taste, its playing with people's hearts and lives.
In the end, you're playing with fire - God's wrath.

If you had just left it at "marijuana can relieve pain or alleviate difficult symptoms" for this or that illness
(migraines, eating disorders, side-effects of chemotherapy etc.) you might have had both plausibility and sincerity.

Now you've just exposed yourself for either the lunatic or charlatan that you are.

Can you really name one person "cured of cancer" by taking pot?

Have you got one clinical case, one study, one group of test-data to support this?

Or are you insane, playing with people's hopes and hearts,
only to break their hearts with disappointment, not to mention
the stress and anguish you have dumped on their families.

Please explain.
just follow the link you were given the last time you asked the same question as I have little patients for redundancy (or the same link given again in my response to her will do).

Most of that information is over a decade old now, but there are plenty of other clinical studies to draw data from now that confirm the findings in spades.

As far as your opinion of me based on misinformation and ignorance it makes no never mind, the light will eventually shine on you and reveal it for what it is, one fine day Praise Ya, Zechariah 14:6-9.

until then, speak not of the things you know not of, and curse and defame not those whom do, Leviticus 19:16, what I did for Ktoyou was in perfect love and for her benefit.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
 
Last edited:

jeremysdemo

New member
yeah, you shoudn't smoke anything, our bodies just aren't made for that type of consumption.

You were given everything you asked and you're welcome for it, is there anything else you require?

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
 

jeremysdemo

New member
yep calling people out on there sin is a "spam" to Naz, sorry but to do any less would not be loving you fully, you should be thanking me no matter what thread you receive the saving knowledge in.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
 

Nazaroo

New member
Latest News on Drug Dealer murdering in Mexico

MEXICO CITY — The Mexican government updated its drug war death toll on Wednesday, reporting that 47,515 people had been killed in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderón began a military assault on criminal cartels in late 2006.
.


The new official tally provided by the attorney general’s office included data only through September, and it showed that drug-related killings increased 11 percent, to 12,903, compared with the same nine-month period in 2010. Still, a government statement sought to find a silver lining, asserting that it was the first year since 2006 “that the homicide rate increase has been lower compared to the previous years.”
But that will hardly calm a public scared by the recent arrival of grisly violence in once-safe cities like Guadalajara, nor will Wednesday’s limited data release silence the increasingly loud call for better, more transparent government record keeping.

Federal police officers and forensic workers inspect a crime scene where…

A




murder every half hour in Mexico's drug war


ROQUE PLANAS
Friday, January 13, 2012

Drug war violence in Mexico took a life an average of every half hour last year in Mexico, the government estimates.
The administration of Felipe Calderon had resisted pressure to publish the death figures for months, but the Attorney General's Office finally posted the statistics on its website Wednesday.
The toll linked to the anti-cartel campaign launched by Calderon in 2006 continued to climb; there were 12,903 killings between January and September of 2011.
Total deaths stand at over 47,515, according to the government tally.


pixel.gif
Mexico’s drug war death toll nears 50,000

Jan 11, 2012 – 3:05 PM ET | Last Updated: Jan 11, 2012 3:11 PM ET




MEXICO CITY — Mexican officials said Wednesday almost 13,000 people died in drug violence in the first nine months of 2011, pushing the toll since the start of a five-year military crackdown above 47,000.
Drug-related killings in 2011 were up 11% compared with the same period in 2010, the federal attorney general’s office said, noting it was a slower rise than in previous years.
Drug-related killings rose 70 percent in 2009-2010, 63% in 2008-9 and 110% in 2007-8, a statement said.

The Attorney General’s Office said 12,903 people were killed between January and September 2011, including 1,206 in the violent border city of Ciudad Juarez and almost 800 in the Pacific resort city of Acapulco.
Drug violence killed 15,273 people in 2010, the deadliest year since the launch of the crackdown according to official figures, though it was still unclear if last year’s statistics would surpass that toll.
One year ago, the government released figures showing 34,612 people had died in suspected drug violence since President Felipe Calderon started a controversial military crackdown on organized crime gangs at the end of 2006.
The latest figures were gathered from the offices of state prosecutors.
Wednesday’s statement underlined that 70% of last year’s suspected drug-related killings occurred in only eight of 31 states and the capital.
Local authorities have reported 40 gangland-style killings so far this week, including 13 bodies dumped near a gas station in the western state of Michoacan and two bodies found burned and decapitated in the capital Wednesday.
The cost of smoking Mexican pot, and buying South American Crack cocaine
continues to rise...

"..until there was no remedy."
(2nd Chronicles 36:16)
 

Nazaroo

New member
By the way DRUG DEALING is in fact mentioned specifically in the New Testament and condemned, in the original Greek.

We had a long thread on this only a year or two ago.

It can be found here:

Pharmakeia: Drug-Dealing in the New Testament



We suggest anyone interested in what the New Testament really says about drugs and drug dealers should go here.

Here is a quotation from that thread:


------------------------------------------------------------
Drug Dealers In the Bible? Where?

Drug dealing is treated gravely and severely condemned in the New Testament: 5 times.

(Gal.5:20, Rev.9:21, 18:23, 21:8, 22:15, original Greek)

Paul Spoke out against Drug Dealing:
Gal 5:20 "Now the works of the flesh are OBVIOUS: sexual immorality, uncleanness, ... DRUG DEALING ( pharmakeia )...and things like these I am warning you, THOSE WHO DO THEM WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!"
John also Speaks out against Drugs:
Rev. 9:21 "Nor did they even repent of their murders or their DRUG DEALING (ton pharmakon) or their sexual immorality or their robbery."

Rev 22:15 "OUTSIDE (heaven) are the dogs and the DRUG DEALERS (hoi pharmakoi), and everyone who practises falsehood."

Rev 18:23 Babylon the Great City has fallen...All nations were deceived by your DRUG DEALING (en te pharmakeia)"

Rev 21:8 "But as for the ...DRUG DEALERS (pharmakois) their place will be in the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death!"


Why Should we translate 'pharmakoi' as Drug Dealers?


The Greek word ‘pharmakeia’ has been used since 500 years before Jesus’ time to refer to the buying and selling of drugs for both recreational and medical purposes, and also to refer to quacks selling ‘miracle cures’ etc. This is the very word we get our modern English word ‘Pharmacy’ from, to refer to a dealer or supplier of drugs, a drug store.

Why isn't this in my English Translation?

It has been known since ancient times that the word means ‘drug dealing’. Abundant references in Classical literature show this beyond dispute. In English bibles the term ‘drug dealing’ was deliberately avoided and a completely different word, ‘sorcery’ put in its place. This is was not just due to superstitious ignorance.
During the Middle Ages the Church became the largest manufacturer and supplier of the most popular drug on earth: ALCOHOL. The church sold out to the drug dealing industry, and God’s Word was intentionally kept obscure.
To this day, the Western Church not only makes its own wine for religious use, but also sells it commercially through various monasteries and companies.

There may have been some 'excuse' for this sorry state of affairs in the 16th century, before drug dealing was widely understood and formally criminalized. However, in the 21st century there really is no excuse for failing to properly render the original Greek, and make the truth plain.



Are Drug Dealers Really Going to be Destroyed?

This is the million dollar question! In recent times, some Universalists have tried to re-interpret the bible to support the idea that all people are ultimately saved. When Revelation says,
Rev 21:8 "But as for the ...DRUG DEALERS (pharmakois) their place will be in the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death!"
...the Universalists would have us believe it should be rendered,

"...their PART will be in the Lake of Fire, ..."

In this interpretation, a person's 'part' or 'portion' refers to his works and/or collected earnings for good and bad deeds. From this idea they want you to believe that only their 'bad works' will pass through a kind of testing fire, but the drug dealers themselves (and other extreme criminals) and their souls will be saved, thus 'fulfilling the scriptures' in a humane way.

But can this interpretation hold up? Sadly, NO. For safeguarding the meaning here and removing any ambiguity, the action of the Lake of Fire is plainly identified by the following phrase:

"...the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death!"



Ordinary Death versus the Second Death

Now ordinary death is horrifying enough: it is often inconvenient, humiliating, slow, painful, and terrifying, especially if the death is a crime being perpetrated upon an innocent victim. We may hope in an afterlife, but death is quite serious, even for sincerely spiritual people. And the New Testament doesn't avoid the issue, or flower it up with euphemisms. Instead it warns seekers of God that bad things can happen.
"you (disciples) will be persecuted: handed over to courts and imprisoned... betrayed even by friends and relatives, and some of you put to death... and hated by all for My name's sake, ...but not a hair of your head will ultimately be lost!" (Luke 21:12f)
Of course we shouldn't be surprised. The very existance of 'sin' can mean that innocent or at least undeserving people can suffer. By definition, murder is killing someone who shouldn't be killed. Experience shows that even children can be victimized, and even good people can still make mistakes that cause injury or cost lives.

Yet we should not exaggerate ordinary death: there are things more terrible than death:
"Don't be afraid of those who kill the body and afterward can do no more.
I will tell you who to fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed,
has the power to cast into hellfire!"
(Luke 12:4,5)
This is clearly the Second Death, and is to be feared far more than death.


According to Revelation it is applied against criminals, and evil men. And yet it is also clear from all the warnings, that all men are at risk: that any man could find himself facing the Second Death, if he committed a serious enough sin.

Even John, the Apostle of Love warns us of the gravity of certain sins. He says there is a 'sin that leads to Death', and actually tells Christians NOT to pray for those who commit such sins!
If anyone sees a brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he can pray, and God will extend life to his brother, ...provided it is NOT a deadly sin: There is sin that leads to death: and I am NOT saying that you should pray in that case! (1 John 5:16)
Wow, not only are some people going to be destroyed, but we aren't even supposed to pray for them.



Ordinary Judgement versus Special Judgement: The Second Death

How could the Universalists get it so wrong? Simple: what they are talking about is the common Judgement that everyone faces. All people will have their works, good and bad, judged by God on Judgement Day. Of all the works and deeds, whatever is built upon sand will pass away. (James 5:1-4).

But every sincere Christian or seeker of God believes in God's fair judgement, and certainly doesn't need to fear it. (1 John 4:18) Even if my earthly deeds may turn out to be of little value, I will certainly be grateful to at least be judged fairly, and I'll be happy to make it to heaven, even if I am not much of a hero.


The Horrific Second Death:


But ordinary judgement simply CAN'T be what every Apostle was frantically warning us about! What they are talking about can only be the ultimate penalty for evil works: Pain, self-pity and horror, ending in utter destruction without appeal, as God hands out His Final Devastating Judgement. It makes sense to fear this!
John: "You are well aware that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him."

Peter: "If the righteous are scarcely saved, what will happen to the wicked?"

James: "Faith without deeds is useless!...it is by deeds, not just believing, that someone is justified."

Hebrews: "Whoever breaks the Law is ruthlessly put to death...and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the Covenant as unholy, and insults the Spirit will be condemned to a far more severe punishment."

Paul: "...I am warning you, THOSE WHO DO THESE THINGS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!"

Jesus: "No one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven."

1 John 3:15/1 Peter 4:18/James 2:20-24/Heb 10:28-29/Gal. 5:20/Luke 12:10

Obviously what these apostles are talking about is NOT ordinary Judgement of men and their works, where the chaff is burnt off, and the wheat remains, or the slag is removed, from true gold through a cleansing fire. Instead, here we are warned of a dire consequence worse than death, an irreversible and violent destruction.


The Book of Revelation is supported by every apostle and leader of the New Testament, although its detailed description of God's Final Judgement is unique. Some who suffer the Wrath of God clearly do NOT repent, and so are NOT saved, but are cast into God's garbage can:
"When it happens, those people will long for death but not find it anywhere!"

"But the survivors of the first plagues refused to repent, or stop their murders, DRUG DEALING, sexual immorality, or robbery."

"This is the Second Death: the Lake of Fire. And anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was thrown into the Lake of Fire."

"And the Demon (Diabolos) who had deceived them was also thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, where the Beast and False Prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night, aeon after aeon." (Revelation 9:6,21, 20:15 20:10)
This makes it clear that the doctrine of Universal Salvation is bankrupt, and is not supported by the New Testament as a whole.

Anyone can be saved, but not everyone will be.



Of course God doesn't wish anyone to perish, but wishes that all might have Eternal Life. (John 3:16-17)


God is not Mocked

But according to the New Testament view, God's Divine nature, which gives men everywhere ample opportunity to repent, has a complimentary side which ultimately requires justice and fairness, and results in a Final Judgement for some.

God won't force people to repent,
but He will certainly destroy them if they refuse to.




No Hope for Drug Dealers?

We have seen that some people are not saved but are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and some of those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire are DRUG DEALERS. But is God referring to ALL drug dealers, or just some of them?


Jesus made it clear that there are 'small' sins and 'large' sins (Matthew 23:23). We have already seen that some sins lead to death, or worse. (1 John 5:16, Heb.10:28-29), and horrific punishments are prophesied in Revelation. Now please note again that Paul doesn't hesitate grouping DRUG DEALING alongside the worst sins that lead certainly to death and exclude Eternal Life also.
Gal 5:20 "...DRUG DEALING...and things like these I am warning you, THOSE WHO DO THEM WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!"
And Paul is not just talking about a handful of ringleaders, or some international drug lords only: He warns ordinary church goers that committing these sins leads to death and disqualifies you for Eternal Life! That's pretty much EVERY DRUG DEALER, since it even includes backsliding Christians!

But wait, there may still be hope for a repentant DRUG DEALER: God is not an unjust Judge. We can hope He will make some allowance for ignorance, poverty, deception, or unreasonable circumstances. And indeed, Jesus gives us some hope here:
"The one who knew what his Master wanted, but didn't do it will get a severe beating, but he who did NOT know and earned a beating will get a lighter beating."
(Luke 12:47-48)
A DRUG DEALER who is STILL ALIVE, and capable of repenting and stopping his crimes, could receive forgiveness and be saved:
"As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but prefer the wicked turn back from their evil and live. Turn back! Repent of your evil, for why should you die?" (Ezekiel 33:11)
On the other hand, a Christian who falls away from his faithfulness and commits crimes like DRUG DEALING and murder is in danger of the severest Judgement:
"But the righteous won't be able to count on their righteousness if they sin: If they trust in their righteousness and commit sin, none of their righteous deeds will be remembered! But in the sin they have committed, they will die." (Ezek 33:12-13)


"Don't be deceived, for God is not mocked: Whatever you sow, you will reap." (Gal. 6:7)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bumped.
 

aCultureWarrior

BANNED
Banned
LIFETIME MEMBER
Bumped for RandPaul.

Excellent thread my friend.

Keep in mind that these dopers don't care about God and His rules. Even if they do say that they believe in God, they put their love of recreational drugs way before their alleged love of Him.
 

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
only a Russian Communist alcoholic would take the Cana-Wedding story literally, in order to justify boozing.


The real Jesus did no miracle at Cana turning 180 gallons of water into alcohol for an already dangerously drunk crowd of losers, unless he intended to kill them.

The fact is, this is a parable meant to divert the authorities from the real first 'sign', which was the Temple Cleansing, a plain revolutionary and political act and one which the Jewish authorities and Romans took seriously and crucified him for.

Anderson & Structure of John

The Cana Story is a substitute story read publicly while the Church was still an underground movement. The real story, the Temple Cleansing, was read only in private.

peace
Nazaroo

Naz, you need to get off drugs...
 

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
Bumped for RandPaul.

I just looked at it.

You may be correct that drug dealing is meant by the passages in question, but there's still no mention of any criminal penalties for the action, so I don't see how my contention that drugs should be legalized would be refuted here.

That said, you're obviously crazy because of your interpretation of the wedding of Cana. You contradict what the Bible plainly says to defend your agenda that all drugs are bad.
 

Nazaroo

New member
I just looked at it.

You may be correct that drug dealing is meant by the passages in question, but there's still no mention of any criminal penalties for the action, so I don't see how my contention that drugs should be legalized would be refuted here.


Lets think it through:

If drug dealing is lumped in with murder, adultery, and fornication,
all death-penalty offences, and it plainly excludes entry into heaven
by forfeit of salvation (cf. Hebrews on the gravity of sin here),
its logically sensible to hold that the minimum penalty is death.

And why would that be?

Because brain damage and drug dependence destroys lives,
prevents someone from understanding or believing the gospel
or any part of the word of God (holy scripture),
and prevents any significant productivity in furthering the kingdom of God,
and light to all peoples.




That said, you're obviously crazy because of your interpretation of the wedding of Cana. You contradict what the Bible plainly says to defend your agenda that all drugs are bad.

The Wedding at Cana needs careful parsing.

I am glad to carefully expound it for you,
by interpreting it in the light of the rest of Holy Scripture,
as faith and reason demands.




Greek 'oinos' later mis-rendered into Italian as 'vino'.

Unfortunately, the Greeks/Romans were completely at odds with Middle Eastern practice concerning alcohol, and the result was confusion and perversion.

'oinos' in the N.T. means juice, whether fermented or UNfermented.
This is made plain by the necessity of having to distinguish between the two, by using "neos" (= 'new' and 'old') oinos, for unfermented and fermented.

We know this is the usage, because the 'old' wine bottles (with yeast) cause fermentation which bursts the oinos-skins.

All yeast was forbidden for the whole passover week, even in bread.
The 'oinos' at the Last Supper (a passover meal) was unfermented grape juice.

Finally, Jesus would have been insanely irresponsible to provide another 150 gallons of alcoholic beverage to a drunken crowd.
In that case, Jesus would indeed have been approving of 'drunkeness'.

The Wedding at Cana, not recorded elsewhere, was a substitute section meant for public reading when the early Christians were being spied upon by the Romans and Jewish authorities. They would read the REAL section (the driving out of the money-changers) when no one else was around.

The Cleansing of the Temple is the REAL 1st Sign of 7 in the Gospel of John. But this had to be skipped while the church was still underground,
and was read privately. The Wedding section was read instead, when 'new' Christians or possible spies were lurking.
...

Originally Posted by Paulos
Leaven was forbidden, not yeast. Big difference there. Yeast are naturally occurring airborne microscopic organisms that were a completely unknown factor until Louis Pasteur's discovery in 1857. There was no way for them to "forbid" yeast when they didn't even know it existed.

Leaven was nothing more than aged dough--and yes, that could be forbidden.


This is pure self-serving rationalization.

I might just as well say 'fornication' is wrong,
but not sex with your daughter, because 'the two become one'.

Don't pick and choose, to serve your own interests,
and serve alcohol to yourself and others.
The slippery slope is slippery lawyers, not Christians.

Originally Posted by Bradley D
The Bible does say that Jesus drank wine.

Correction. The Bible NOWHERE says that Jesus drank wine.

This is just wishful thinking and pandering interpretation on your part,
and on the part of all drug dealers.

Just like Simon the Magician, you want Jesus,
but you're unwilling to abandon your old ways.

But new 'oinos' won't fit into old oinos-skins.
Your nonsense will burst apart like Judas on the Field of Blood,
JUST AS IT HAS FOR 30,000 DEAD MEXICANS,
murdered in the last 5 years over DRUG DEALING.


Quote:
However, there is scripture that advises people in positions of power should not imbibe due to being responsible to render judgements. Also Paul says if one is with a brother who does not drink and his faith may be weakened by another brothers drinking. Even though there is nothing against one having a drink (meaning not getting drunk) one should be more concerned with the weaker brother's concern.
And by logical extension, all Christians should abstain,
if even ONE weak brother is thereby saved from foolishness.
The fact that they don't,
means they either don't love their weaker brothers and sisters,
or else they are not even Christians.


Quote:
I myself am a recovered alcoholic and do not drink alcohol. I believe there is nothing wrong with a Christian having an alcoholic drink.
This clearly proves that you weren't saved by your belief,
since your belief is nonsense.

Quote:
Luke 7:33-35
“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.” But wisdom is proved right by all her children.” (NIV)
For they paraphrased, and then ate the apple.

The Scripture does NOT say,
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking WINE..."

but it says rather:
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking..."

Wisdom is indeed proved right by those Bereans who read carefully.


Quote:
Proverbs 31:4-6It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.” (KJV)
Apparently again you cannot read your own text:

If it is NOT for kings to drink wine,
then Jesus is NOT a king, if he drank wine as you say.


Bible poisoned.


Quote:
Romans 14:21 “It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.” (ESV)
It is good NOT to drink wine.

QED
\

--------------------
Originally Posted by Shelli
Your response above is not ... comprehensive, ... is it?

There is no mention in your post of the comparison the governor of the feast made between "good wine" and "worse" wine, stating Jesus had made "good wine." The reason such a comparison is made is that after drinking ethanol the perception of taste is dulled, disguising the perception of "worse" wine. Hence, a host would save the "worse" wine for when the guests were drunk.

As the wedding feast had a Governor in charge, not necessarily a government official yet one appinted to oversee a large and important event, and as the house had at hand very large pots holding 150 gallons, Jesus did indeed juice up drunken people whose alcohol consumption had by then exceded the prepared supplies of the Governor of the Feast.

Thanks for chatting.


Don't run away just yet.


My answer is indeed comprehensive.
I have discussed the Wedding at Cana in great detail, here:

Why the Wedding at Cana doesn't support Alcohol


The Real Meaning of the Wedding at Cana

When you read through that, we'll be able to have an intelligent discussion about this passage.










See also
Roman Catholics and Drug Dealing: Damned to Lake of Fire
 

aCultureWarrior

BANNED
Banned
LIFETIME MEMBER
For the record, I don't use marijuana or any other prohibited drug, nor do I use alcohol, nicotine, or anything else like that.

Of course not, you just push immoral recreational drugs onto society via legislation.

You are familiar with the pagan term "karma" and the Judeo-Christian phrase "You reap what you sow" aren't you Jr.?

I pity you Jr., as life won't be kind to you if you keep this type of immoral behavior up.
 
Top