freewill & foreknowledge
- Thread starter GregoryN
- Start date
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
'Sounds like a created thing, trying to tell their Creator, what He can and can't do. I don't think you can do that.
Greetings GregoryN,
Kind regards
Trevor
I do not know what Open Theism represents but I am willing to give a general response to the following, but many have discussed these concepts before:
This at first seems reasonable, but when we come to God's knowledge, then it is not limited by our logic. God knows our heart, and this is greater than what we can comprehend. We are in no way compelled to make a choice because God knows beforehand what we will choose.
Kind regards
Trevor
There is no scripture. You merely present an empty opinion.
Scripture shows open theism to be utterly void of substance.
There is no scripture. You merely present an empty opinion.
Scripture shows the (completely) settled view to be utterly void of substance.
:mock: MennoSota
Hypocrite.
Lamentations 3:37
"Who can command things to happen without the Lord’s permission?"
Permission for someone to do something does not mean that that someone is commanded to do that thing.
Scripture shows open theism to be utterly void of substance? Scriptures such as? Please share.
It says that God is 100% Sovereign over all creation in all things. It says that any choice of man is held captive under the Sovereign will of God so that God never has to wait on men to show Him the next move.
Yet, free-will, open theists, hate God because He is entirely Sovereign in all things.
Start with Genesis 1 and end with Revelation 22. The totality of everything in between proves open-theism to be utterly fallacious.
Saying it doesn't make it so, Menno.
This is bearing false witness.
Besides, you still have not defined what "sovereign" means. I agree that God is sovereign. I don't agree that sovereign means what you think it means.
I quoted Lamentations 3, which declares God's Sovereignty over all things.
Your attempt to make yourself ruler over God is the MO of open theism.
You quoted a single verse out of a passage made up completely of poetry, and then gave your opinion about what it says.
Who's really the one attempting to make himself ruler over God?
Read the Bible. God is always Sovereign in the Bible. God is always the one who ordains what is allowed to happen in His creation. God is never forced to react to an unknown variable.
Yet, open theism postulates that God is always reacting to unknown variables as He scrambles to reorganize the chaos of men.
Open Theism is a worthless postulation that comes directly from the pit if Hell.
I have.
You still have not defined what "sovereign" means.
What is allowed to happen? I thought you were a Calvinist, not Arminian...
Forced? Of course not. Does He though (react to variables)? Yes.
This is bearing false witness. We don't teach that.
This is called appeal to ridicule, a logical fallacy, an invalid argument.
There are no variables in God's will. God wills exactly as He has ordained.
I have explained Sovereignty. You seem not to comprehend Sovereignty. I cannot help you.
Not what I said.
Tautology.
Could you do so again, then?
Please define what sovereign means.
I understand what sovereign means, and it has nothing to do with what you think it means.
Talk about arrogant.
Young's Literal Translation
Who is this -- he hath said, and it is, And the Lord hath not commanded it?
Lamentations 3:37
"Literally, "Who is this that spake and it was done, though אדני 'ădonāy commanded it not?""
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lamentations/3-37.htm
"Similarly, if read in context, Lamentations 3:37–38 does not suggest that Yahweh causes or ordains evil. Indeed, four verses earlier the prophet teaches us that God “does not willingly afflict or grieve anyone” (Lam. 3:33). This passage is not concerned with God’s cosmic sovereign activity; it is specifically addressing prophecy. Both “good and bad” prophecies (viz. prophecies about blessings and disaster) come “from the mouth of the Most High.” Jeremiah is saying this to confront people who only want to believe that prophecies about blessing are from God."
"As much as it grieves the Lord (cf. vs. 31–33), he is prophesying judgment on Israel because “[t]he prisoners of the land [a]re crushed under foot” and “human rights are perverted” (v. 34). Far from suggesting that good and evil are part of God’s sovereign plan, the passage highlights God’s unequivocal holiness in coming against evil as something that he does not in any sense will!"
https://reknew.org/2008/01/isaiah-457lamentations-337-38/
Lam.3:31For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
33For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve THE CHILDREN OF MEN. (KJV, emphasis mine)
If God did not give a "yes" to evil, all humanity would be eradicated.
God uses evil people to accomplish His perfect will.
Try as you may, you are under God's Sovereign hand and you cannot escape His will.
What gives you the idea I don't believe that or an Open Theist does not believe that?