ECT Gentile vs Gentile

[achduke]

Why did Christ treat the two woman gentiles different in the bible?

One was a Samaritan and the other a Canaanite. Both gentiles.

John 4:7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?”

John 4:9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans )

Jesus talked to the Samaritan Woman even though the rest of the Jews did not associate with her.

Matthew 15:22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

Matthew 15:23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

Matthew 15:26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

Jesus would not even answer the Canaanite Woman at first and even referred to her as a Dog until she showed she had faith. As for the Samaritan Woman he did not only speak to her, he approached her first. I think part of the answer can be found in Matthew 15:24

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Samaritan Woman is a gentile of Israel which was divided into two Kingdoms (Israel/Ephraim/Joseph/Northern Kingdom and Judah/Southern Kingdom). This is the part of Israel that was prophetized in Hosea and that Paul mentions in Romans 9.

The Canaanite Woman was a gentile from the Nations or not part of Israel.

Now we are all one body if we are believers in Christ but Christ said he first came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

 

[Danoh]

In other words, your surface reading of the passages, and that, through the traditions of men; has led you to an answer foreign to text, that only those who follow your same books of men taken as Scripture, will; not surprisingly; also hold to.

 

[Interplanner]

Danoh,
could you please write your material in Word, fix the grammar, and then copy it here. It is ridiculous grammar. I don't even know what the theology is because the grammar is so bad.

 

[Interplanner]

Achduke,
It's interesting, yet I don't buy it. I know that the 'only the lost sheep' was to prod Jews to come get busy in his mission. He was being a bit facetious with plenty of statements that his Gospel was for the entire world.

As for the Jn 4 woman, no one was told more plainly that location and gender and tribe did not matter. 3x.

Paul is not talking about an intra-Israel division when we get to 9. The passages are about the Gentiles. See the thread on 'sperma' vs 'sarkos.' Anyone from any tribe, nation, class, gender, descendancy can be a 'sperma.' 'Sarkos' were Abraham's physical children, and only some of them believed and became 'sperma' when they did. Isaac's miracle birth is to be a picture of those who are born from above; they share the fact that it is apart from 'sarkos' (normal physical reproduction).

 

[achduke]

In other words, your surface reading of the passages, and that, through the traditions of men; has led you to an answer foreign to text, that only those who follow your same books of men taken as Scripture, will; not surprisingly; also hold to.

Do you have any scripture or dialog or are you only out to criticize? I had so much hope for you when you were offering up the olive branch as a new user.

 

[Interplanner]

Achduke,
What I would pay attention to in Rom 9 is the application of what Paul says. In Acts 18:2, Jews were evicted from Rome. Then they returned about 5 years later. Romans was written after they returned to help them see that the Gentile church could flourish on its own. Paul quoted many OT passages to help them see that. The Jews were having trouble accepting them more than the Gentiles having trouble accepting the Jews, chs 14-15.

A distinction about two kinds of Gentile women in Samaria or two intra-Israel tribes would hardly be relevant to that need.

 

[achduke]

Achduke,
It's interesting, yet I don't buy it. I know that the 'only the lost sheep' was to prod Jews to come get busy in his mission. He was being a bit facetious with plenty of statements that his Gospel was for the entire world.

As for the Jn 4 woman, no one was told more plainly that location and gender and tribe did not matter. 3x.

Paul is not talking about an intra-Israel division when we get to 9. The passages are about the Gentiles. See the thread on 'sperma' vs 'sarkos.' Anyone from any tribe, nation, class, gender, descendancy can be a 'sperma.' 'Sarkos' were Abraham's physical children, and only some of them believed and became 'sperma' when they did. Isaac's miracle birth is to be a picture of those who are born from above; they share the fact that it is apart from 'sarkos' (normal physical reproduction).

Paul is referencing Hosea which is about the northern kingdom's divorce.

Hosea 1:8 After she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, Gomer had another son. 9 Then the Lord said, “Call him Lo-Ammi (which means “not my people”), for you are not my people, and I am not your God.

Romans 9:25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

Hosea 1:4 Then the Lord said to Hosea, “Call him Jezreel, because I will soon punish the house of Jehu for the massacre at Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of Israel. 5 In that day I will break Israel’s bow in the Valley of Jezreel.”

 

[Interplanner]

That does not mean that is his application in the Roman situation of the 60s when evicted Christian Jews (Acts 18:2) are returning to Rome and having trouble accepting Gentiles as leaders. That is part of the pastoral situation of Romans. Not an intra-Israel complication.

You may be totally spot-on on the ancient situation in Israel/Judah but not on the 1st century application by Paul.

 

[achduke]

That does not mean that is his application in the Roman situation of the 60s when evicted Christian Jews (Acts 18:2) are returning to Rome and having trouble accepting Gentiles as leaders. That is part of the pastoral situation of Romans. Not an intra-Israel complication.

You may be totally spot-on on the ancient situation in Israel/Judah but not on the 1st century application by Paul.

I think what Paul showed is that we are all grafted into one body read Romans 11:31 but that one body is still called Israel. So many want to separate Israel from the Gentiles but they are all one. The OT still calls them Israel. By Israel I do not mean a land mass in the middle east.

Even the OT showed that the laws applied to the foreigners among Israel and the native born are the same.

Leviticus 24:22 You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’ ”

Romans 11:13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Romans 11:25-26 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this waye all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

 

[DAN P]

In other words, your surface reading of the passages, and that, through the traditions of men; has led you to an answer foreign to text, that only those who follow your same books of men taken as Scripture, will; not surprisingly; also hold to.

Hi and his surface reading IS HILASIOUS since he did not read John 4:12 the Samariatian woman Father and linage is JACOB !!

Wonder if he will explain that ??

dan p

 

[achduke]

Hi and his surface reading IS HILASIOUS since he did not read John 4:12 the Samariatian woman Father and linage is JACOB !!

Wonder if he will explain that ??

dan p

This is the point Dan P. The Samaritan Woman was not a Jew(House of Judah) but she is still part of Israel(House of Israel). The Northern Kingdom is from Israel. They were cast out of Israel to become as Gentiles. Assyria took them into captivity. Read Hosea.

John 4:9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans. )

 

[Interplanner]

I think what Paul showed is that we are all grafted into one body read Romans 11:31 but that one body is still called Israel. So many want to separate Israel from the Gentiles but they are all one. The OT still calls them Israel. By Israel I do not mean a land mass in the middle east.

Even the OT showed that the laws applied to the foreigners among Israel and the native born are the same.

I'm surprised to fnid this Achduke, because you have veered off into intra-Israel issues so many times. Where are actually?

 

[achduke]

I'm surprised to fnid this Achduke, because you have veered off into intra-Israel issues so many times. Where are actually?

Not quite sure I understand this question. Can you rephrase it? Thank you,

 

[Interplanner]

Not quite sure I understand this question. Can you rephrase it? Thank you,

My bad. Where are YOU on this? All of a sudden the intra-tribal problem in Israel doesn't matter, and you are on board saying Paul was referring to complete Gentiles in those Romans quotes in ch 9 and 15.

 

[Interplanner]

This is the point Dan P. The Samaritan Woman was not a Jew(House of Judah) but she is still part of Israel(House of Israel). The Northern Kingdom is from Israel. They were cast out of Israel to become as Gentiles. Assyria took them into captivity. Read Hosea.

Achduke,
this was your last intra-Israel proposition. It does not grasp what Rom 9 is saying about total Gentiles, or ch 11.

The Samaritan in Jn 4 was especially nailed by Christ for trying to make class, race, gender matter. She cannot illustrate what you are saying. "Neither in this mountain or that!" Etc. "Worship is in spirit and truth."

 

[achduke]

My bad. Where are YOU on this? All of a sudden the intra-tribal problem in Israel doesn't matter, and you are on board saying Paul was referring to complete Gentiles in those Romans quotes in ch 9 and 15.

As the Body of Christ is concerned it does not matter. We are all one body referred to as Israel. My point behind it is that the MAD believers think that Israel is different from the Gentiles. I am showing they are the same thing. I have to lead them around by a leash a little though. All believers, (Southern Kingdom/Judah, Northern Kingdom/Israel/Gentiles and Foreigners/Gentiles) are all grafted in as one body. They are not separate. The MAD believers should not distinguish between them but some of them even though they consider themselves gentiles may in fact have been part of the Northern Kingdom in ancestry. All Israel will be saved!

 

[Danoh]

As the Body of Christ is concerned it does not matter. We are all one body referred to as Israel. My point behind it is that the MAD believers think that Israel is different from the Gentiles. I am showing they are the same thing. I have to lead them around by a leash a little though. All believers, (Southern Kingdom/Judah, Northern Kingdom/Israel/Gentiles and Foreigners/Gentiles) are all grafted in as one body. They are not separate. The MAD believers should not distinguish between them but some of them even though they consider themselves gentiles may in fact have been part of the Northern Kingdom in ancestry. All Israel will be saved!

You are confusing those formerly lost Jews saved into the Body after Israel's fall, with the believing remnant of Israel - the Israel of God - saved and sealed prior to Israel's fall.

 

[achduke]

You are confusing those formerly lost Jews saved into the Body after Israel's fall, with the believing remnant of Israel - the Israel of God - saved and sealed prior to Israel's fall.

Do you have scripture showing the lost jews saved into the body?

 

[Danoh]

Do you have scripture showing the lost jews saved into the body?

Off the top of my head as to "lost Jews saved into the body after Israel's fall" - 1st and 2nd Thessalonians; 1st and 2nd Corinthians...

 

[Interplanner]

What is Israel's fall? Lk 13? AD 70?