God's Exhaustive Foreknowledge

JudgeRightly

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is there a verse that says that and if not then God does not have exhaustive infallible foreknowledge is that your argument ?
that would be a logical fallacy , argument from silence

No.

Asking you to provide biblical support for a claim you're making is not an argument from silence.

And that isn't even the argument being presented. We've provided positive arguments demonstrating why exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge is incompatible with libertarian free will.

You're welcome to challenge those arguments, but merely attaching the name of a logical fallacy to something you don't understand doesn't refute anything.

where does Jesus say "I am God" ?
Jesus never said that , does that mean Jesus is not God , of course not

John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8.

The deity of Christ is established by Scripture without requiring the precise sentence "I am God."

Now demonstrate how Scripture establishes exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge of every future human choice.

unsupported statement . will ignore .

You've been given supporting arguments repeatedly.

Refusing to engage with them doesn't make them disappear.

trying to argue foreknowledge is a force ?
or trying to retract your statement that God makes people sin ?

Nobody is arguing that foreknowledge is a force.

And where, exactly, did @Right Divider claim that God makes people sin?

The issue is whether an action can genuinely be otherwise if God already infallibly knows that it will occur.

Causation has nothing to do with the logical argument.

the elect still have to be called so they can choose . ¯_(ツ)_/¯

(John 15:16) You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatever you shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it to you

(Ephesians 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

And what does either passage establish about exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge?

In John 15:16, Christ is addressing His disciples concerning their appointment to bear fruit.

In Ephesians 1:4, Paul is describing God's purpose for those who are in Christ.

Neither passage states that God infallibly knows every future choice of every human being.

You're confusing God's ability to choose people and accomplish His purposes with exhaustive knowledge of every decision anyone will ever make.

Those are not the same thing.

And even if you established that God foreknew a particular person's salvation, you still wouldn't have established exhaustive foreknowledge.

That's the distinction you keep failing to address.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
No.

Asking you to provide biblical support for a claim you're making is not an argument from silence.
(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.
John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8.

The deity of Christ is established by Scripture without requiring the precise sentence "I am God."
and yet people deny Jesus is God
Now demonstrate how Scripture establishes exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge of every future human choice.
(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.

Nobody is arguing that foreknowledge is a force.
ok
And where, exactly, did @Right Divider claim that God makes people sin?
here, his answer to my question : #22 Yes, there are some things that God knows will happen because He has the power to make them come to pass!

I asked did God make them sin ?
(Psalms 22:14-18) [14] I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. [15] My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. [16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. [17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. [18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

The issue is whether an action can genuinely be otherwise if God already infallibly knows that it will occur.

Causation has nothing to do with the logical argument.
God knows what you freely choose
that being said God chose us first , He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world , before we existed.

(Ephesians 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
(John 15:16) You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you
And what does either passage establish about exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge?

In John 15:16, Christ is addressing His disciples concerning their appointment to bear fruit.

In Ephesians 1:4, Paul is describing God's purpose for those who are in Christ.

Neither passage states that God infallibly knows every future choice of every human being.

You're confusing God's ability to choose people and accomplish His purposes with exhaustive knowledge of every decision anyone will ever make.

Those are not the same thing.

And even if you established that God foreknew a particular person's salvation, you still wouldn't have established exhaustive foreknowledge.

That's the distinction you keep failing to address.
ignoring the evidence doesn't make it go away as you like to say ,didn't address the bolded part did you ?
(Ephesians 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

And even if you established that God foreknew a particular person's salvation, you still wouldn't have established exhaustive foreknowledge.
in order to choose us in Him before the foundation of the world ,
God has to have exhaustive infallible foreknowledge how else could God foreknow of your existence without knowing all the details
that had to happen for you to come into existence .

(1 person odds of existence roughly 1 in 10⁷,⁵⁰⁰ — a 1 followed by 7,500 zeros.)

(Romans 8:29) For whom He foreknew, means before you existed
(Romans 11:2) God did not thrust out His people whom He foreknew. The Jews God foreknew and chose by election

Peter (I Peter 1:2) chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace be multiplied

the disciples believed God has exhaustive infallible foreknowledge


(Psalms 139:16) Thine eyes saw my unformed substance, and in thy book they were all written, even the days that were ordained, when as yet there was none of them.


(Jeremiah 1:5) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou came forth out of the womb I sanctified thee. I have appointed thee a prophet to the nations
 

Right Divider

Body part
(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.
Classic "Bible quote"... ONE verse taken OUT OF CONTEXT.

The HIS in that verse is GOD HIMSELF!

Acts 15:18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(15:18) Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

Of course God knew what HE would do before He began the world. God PLANNED it!

and yet people deny Jesus is God
Red herring... great work! I'd expect nothing less from you.
here, his answer to my question : #22 Yes, there are some things that God knows will happen because He has the power to make them come to pass!
I was NOT saying that God makes anyone sin. I was saying YES, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT GOD KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME BECAUSE HE CAN MAKE THEM HAPPEN.

You are a retarded moron.
God knows what you freely choose
that being said God chose us first , He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world , before we existed.
Again, you misunderstand the scripture so badly that it's no wonder that you're completely confused.
(Ephesians 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
That is NOT talking about individuals, but the group.

Your Calvinist ideas are blasphemous.
(John 15:16) You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you
That is talking about TWELVE specific people that Jesus chose to be His messengers.

John 6:70 (AKJV/PCE)​
(6:70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? ​

Oops.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
@way 2 go

Your answer: (Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.

You seem to be saying that God knows all facts about the future including all choices every one will ever make because they are all "God's works." Is that what you believe?
the verse says "All His works are known to God from eternity."

All past , present and future : All God has done , is doing , will do , are known to God from eternity

exhaustive infallible foreknowledge

one type of work that God knows about
(Philippians 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Classic "Bible quote"... ONE verse taken OUT OF CONTEXT.

The HIS in that verse is GOD HIMSELF!

Acts 15:18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(15:18) Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

Of course God knew what HE would do before He began the world. God PLANNED it!
I know it is God
all ,is not some ,it's All , and from eternity
has done, is doing, will do , from eternity
that takes :
exhaustive infallible foreknowledge

(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.

Red herring... great work! I'd expect nothing less from you.
believe what ever you want , but is it true ?
I was NOT saying that God makes anyone sin. I was saying YES, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT GOD KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME BECAUSE HE CAN MAKE THEM HAPPEN.
did God make them sin or was it foreknowledge ?
why the yelling ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You are a retarded moron.
why are open theist so bitter ?
Again, you misunderstand the scripture so badly that it's no wonder that you're completely confused.
not confused
That is NOT talking about individuals, but the group.
(Ephesians 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
and what individuals make up that group , us . (◔_◔)
Your Calvinist ideas are blasphemous.
?
That is talking about TWELVE specific people that Jesus chose to be His messengers.

John 6:70 (AKJV/PCE)​
(6:70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? ​

Oops.
ooops what ?
are you say Jesus made a mistake choosing judas ?

(Romans 13:1) Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.


all I was saying is , it is God that chose us first we didn't chose God first
open theist are all about free will and all
 

Right Divider

Body part
the verse says "All His works are known to God from eternity."
Do you know why your translation capitalizes "His"?
All past , present and future : All God has done , is doing , will do , are known to God from eternity
ABOUT HIMSELF! Of course He knows HIS own plans.... duh!
exhaustive infallible foreknowledge
Again, stop obfuscating (that's really about all that you've done) and answer the question of THIS THREAD:

Does God have exhaustive foreknowledge of every single human action, even before those people are even born.​

God's knowledge of HIS FUTURE PLANS does NOT answer that question.
one type of work that God knows about
(Philippians 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,
Wonderful verse, but does NOTHING to help your vain idea.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I know it is God
all ,is not some ,it's All , and from eternity
has done, is doing, will do , from eternity
that takes :
exhaustive infallible foreknowledge

(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.
That says NOTHING about a SINGLE HUMAN CHOICE or ACTION!
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
That says NOTHING about a SINGLE HUMAN CHOICE or ACTION!
all ,is not some ,it's All , and from eternity
has done, is doing, will do , from eternity
that takes :
exhaustive infallible foreknowledge

(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.


one type of work that God knows about
(Philippians 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,

so explain how God knows All these works that he will do in us that he knew from eternity without knowing our choices or actions?
 

Right Divider

Body part
all ,is not some ,it's All , and from eternity
has done, is doing, will do , from eternity
that takes :
exhaustive infallible foreknowledge

(Acts 15:18) All His works are known to God from eternity.


one type of work that God knows about
(Philippians 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,

so explain how God knows All these works that he will do in us that he knew from eternity without knowing our choices or actions?
Are you a Calvinist?
 
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