Theology Club: Grace Revealed - From Grace Ambassadors Ministry Update -

[patrick jane]

This is not copy/pasted. this is in part, what i believe to be true -

i am typing myself, but i did not write this -
this was written by Pastor Justin Johnson for God's Glory - the internet says this church is in Indiana -

i copied this page from my gmail - received on 6-27-15 -

i will attempt to type this word for word/verbatim. - as anyone, i can make mistakes -

it says in part," a major objection to placing a dividing line in God's operation with the apostle Paul is that grace appears in the Bible before and after him.

How can the dispensation of of the grace of God start with Paul if John wrote "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" - John 1:17 -

Peter says he is a steward of the "manifold grace of God" - 1 Peter 4:10
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, as did Moses and David.

The new covenant even prophesied grace that should come to Israel as in the wilderness Jeremiah 31:2 - Jeremiah 31:34 - and 1 Peter 4:10 -

How can the gospel of the grace of God be preached first exclusively by Paul when there is all of this evidence of God's grace throughout the Bible ?

God has shown his grace throughout the Bible. Yet, how could He be gracious to a world of sinners was not known, and remained a mystery.

Grace was not reserved for Paul, it was revealed to Paul.

By the dispensation of the grace of God, the revelation of the mystery of Christ, we can understand now the grace of God found in Christ alone and His finished work offered freely to all sinners.

Grace was not reserved for us in this dispensation, it was revealed to us.

For His glory,

Justin "saved by grace" Johnson" -

i have also seen Pastor Justin use a 'nickname' ? - Rejoicing - Praise God

again, i, PJ (Mark is my real name), may have made mistakes in my typing, not intentionally -

I usually capitalize words like Grace, Glory, Him, He or Word, when speaking (typing) of God - i also usually add KJV to the end of any Bible quote that i post. i am not open to debate right this second, but i feel the need to post this -

P.S. - i also usually highlight, bold or color certain words of my posts, or other people's posts to stress a point, which may or may not have been in the original message sent to me. i also apologize for my inability to post links and such, and i choose not to display websites in my posts.

i also submit, that most everything i type is in my own words, unless it's The Word Of God -

 

[Tambora]

There are differences in "salvation" as well as "grace".

Noah was "saved" from the flood, but that salvation was not the salvation of eternal life.

And folks received "grace", but not the grace of eternal life.
Jacob was chosen over his twin brother Esau (without any merit on their part). So that was grace, but not grace of eternal life.


Good study, though.
:thumb:

 

[musterion]

How can the dispensation of of the grace of God start with Paul if John wrote "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" - John 1:17 -

By that reasoning, the grace and truth He brought disregarded Gentiles, for He specifically forbad His disciples to go to Gentiles until they had gone to Jews first (Matt 10:5-6).

Peter says he is a steward of the "manifold grace of God" - 1 Peter 4:10 Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, as did Moses and David.

As some have long pointed out, there's a huge difference between receiving grace in any given dispensation, and THE dispensation of grace under which we now live.

The new covenant even prophesied grace that should come to Israel as in the wilderness Jeremiah 31:2 - Jeremiah 31:34 - and 1 Peter 4:10 -

Exactly.

How can the gospel of the grace of God be preached first exclusively by Paul when there is all of this evidence of God's grace throughout the Bible ?

See answer above re: grace in a dispensation and the dispensation of grace.

God has shown his grace throughout the Bible.

True.

Yet, how could He be gracious to a world of sinners was not known, and remained a mystery.

What remained a mystery? That Messiah would die for the sins of the entire world without distinction or status before God? That is true -- no one knew that before it was revealed through Paul.

Grace was not reserved for Paul, it was revealed to Paul.

That makes no sense. No idea what he's implying there.

By the dispensation of the grace of God, the revelation of the mystery of Christ, we can understand now the grace of God found in Christ alone and His finished work offered freely to all sinners.

Yes, NOW we can, only because that knowledge was given through Paul. We cannot find such knowledge in the O.T., nor can we find it acted upon by the disciples in the Gospels or early Acts.

Grace was not reserved for us in this dispensation, it was revealed to us.

Still not sure what his real point is there but I know of no one who has ever claimed differently.

 

[Angel4Truth]

This is not copy/pasted. this is in part, what i believe to be true -

i am typing myself, but i did not write this -
this was written by Pastor Justin Johnson for God's Glory - the internet says this church is in Indiana -

i copied this page from my gmail - received on 6-27-15 -

i will attempt to type this word for word/verbatim. - as anyone, i can make mistakes -

it says in part," a major objection to placing a dividing line in God's operation with the apostle Paul is that grace appears in the Bible before and after him.

How can the dispensation of of the grace of God start with Paul if John wrote "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" - John 1:17 -

Peter says he is a steward of the "manifold grace of God" - 1 Peter 4:10
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, as did Moses and David.

The new covenant even prophesied grace that should come to Israel as in the wilderness Jeremiah 31:2 - Jeremiah 31:34 - and 1 Peter 4:10 -

How can the gospel of the grace of God be preached first exclusively by Paul when there is all of this evidence of God's grace throughout the Bible ?

God has shown his grace throughout the Bible. Yet, how could He be gracious to a world of sinners was not known, and remained a mystery.

Grace was not reserved for Paul, it was revealed to Paul.

By the dispensation of the grace of God, the revelation of the mystery of Christ, we can understand now the grace of God found in Christ alone and His finished work offered freely to all sinners.

Grace was not reserved for us in this dispensation, it was revealed to us.

For His glory,

Justin "saved by grace" Johnson" -

i have also seen Pastor Justin use a 'nickname' ? - Rejoicing - Praise God

again, i, PJ (Mark is my real name), may have made mistakes in my typing, not intentionally -

I usually capitalize words like Grace, Glory, Him, He or Word, when speaking (typing) of God - i also usually add KJV to the end of any Bible quote that i post. i am not open to debate right this second, but i feel the need to post this -

P.S. - i also usually highlight, bold or color certain words of my posts, or other people's posts to stress a point, which may or may not have been in the original message sent to me. i also apologize for my inability to post links and such, and i choose not to display websites in my posts.

i also submit, that most everything i type is in my own words, unless it's The Word Of God -

A dispensation (meaning: a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time) of grace (unmerited favor) is not the same thing as particular instances of grace.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A dispensation (meaning: a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time) of grace (unmerited favor) is not the same thing as particular instances of grace.

Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How can the dispensation of of the grace of God start with Paul if John wrote "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" - John 1:17 -

Because the "dispensation" or "stewardship" of the grace of God refers to the responsibility to preach the gospel of God's grace.

 

[patrick jane]

By that reasoning, the grace and truth He brought disregarded Gentiles, for He specifically forbad His disciples to go to Gentiles until they had gone to Jews first (Matt 10:5-6).

As some have long pointed out, there's a huge difference between receiving grace in any given dispensation, and THE dispensation of grace under which we now live.

Exactly.

See answer above re: grace in a dispensation and the dispensation of grace.

True.

What remained a mystery? That Messiah would die for the sins of the entire world without distinction or status before God? That is true -- no one knew that before it was revealed through Paul.

That makes no sense. No idea what he's implying there.

Yes, NOW we can, only because that knowledge was given through Paul. We cannot find such knowledge in the O.T., nor can we find it acted upon by the disciples in the Gospels or early Acts.

Still not sure what his real point is there but I know of no one who has ever claimed differently.

very good points musterion. i came across this place/pastor online around the time i came here. i check it out periodically and it's easy for dummies

 

[patrick jane]

GRACE AMBASSADORS MINISTRY UPDATE

July 4th, 2015
"Christ is (not yet) King!

"And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one." - Zechariah 14:8-9

This is one of hundreds of prophecies about the promised kingdom God will bring to earth in Jerusalem.

With the multitude of religions, thousands of gods, a world run by sinners, and another upcoming election in America, can there be any doubt that this prophecy has not yet been fulfilled?

Why then do people believe we are living in the kingdom now, and try to use kingdom doctrine to explain how God operates today?

The truth is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the rightful heir of the earth, and is the King of Kings, but has not yet made the kingdoms of this world his footstool. He is not yet reigning on Earth.

For nearly two millennia the Lord Jesus Christ has been building a new thing (not of this world), a new creature, called the body of Christ. It is not a nation, not given any laws, not under any earthly covenants, and wherein there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

God is not bringing in His kingdom today. He has ordained ambassadors in this world with terms of peace and reconciliation.

This church consists of those who have received the terms through Jesus Christ, and are accepted by God in Him.

God's peace on earth will not be achieved through trying to establish the LORD as the king of all the earth. God's peace toward men today comes from hearing the word of reconciliation from the ambassadors of Christ.

Stop trying to bring in Christ's political kingdom, and start being an ambassador preaching the terms of peace to a world Christ is coming to destroy.

For His glory,"

written and sent to my email from Grace Ambassadors by

Justin "ambassador" Johnson

 

[Tambora]

I'm puzzled as to why you continue posting in the MAD forum, when you just recently proclaimed:

Dispensationalism is wrong.

there are no "dispensations"​

 

[patrick jane]

I'm puzzled as to why you continue posting in the MAD forum, when you just recently proclaimed:

Dispensationalism is wrong.

there are no "dispensations"​

certain forms and/or doctrines are wrong as with any faith or non-faith. i saw some crazy stuff about Darby. Paul and the entire Bible speaks for itself. if i said "there are no dispensations" then i was wrong. IF i said those exact words -

it's obvious that Paul preached a different gospel. i'm studying The Acts again now and seeing clearly where/when dispensations are and what everyone involved was doing. it's going good. i started the thread and decided to post again, because i believe the Bible -

I'd like to move this thread to a regular forum, for anyone. i looked and i can't do it myself -

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And folks received "grace", but not the grace of eternal life. Jacob was chosen over his twin brother Esau (without any merit on their part). So that was grace, but not grace of eternal life.

Are these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the Law in regard to ""a grace of eternal life?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

 

[Danoh]

This is not copy/pasted. this is in part, what i believe to be true -

i am typing myself, but i did not write this -
this was written by Pastor Justin Johnson for God's Glory - the internet says this church is in Indiana -

i copied this page from my gmail - received on 6-27-15 -

i will attempt to type this word for word/verbatim. - as anyone, i can make mistakes -

it says in part," a major objection to placing a dividing line in God's operation with the apostle Paul is that grace appears in the Bible before and after him.

How can the dispensation of of the grace of God start with Paul if John wrote "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" - John 1:17 -

Peter says he is a steward of the "manifold grace of God" - 1 Peter 4:10
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, as did Moses and David.

The new covenant even prophesied grace that should come to Israel as in the wilderness Jeremiah 31:2 - Jeremiah 31:34 - and 1 Peter 4:10 -

How can the gospel of the grace of God be preached first exclusively by Paul when there is all of this evidence of God's grace throughout the Bible ?

God has shown his grace throughout the Bible. Yet, how could He be gracious to a world of sinners was not known, and remained a mystery.

Grace was not reserved for Paul, it was revealed to Paul.

By the dispensation of the grace of God, the revelation of the mystery of Christ, we can understand now the grace of God found in Christ alone and His finished work offered freely to all sinners.

Grace was not reserved for us in this dispensation, it was revealed to us.

For His glory,

Justin "saved by grace" Johnson" -

i have also seen Pastor Justin use a 'nickname' ? - Rejoicing - Praise God

again, i, PJ (Mark is my real name), may have made mistakes in my typing, not intentionally -

I usually capitalize words like Grace, Glory, Him, He or Word, when speaking (typing) of God - i also usually add KJV to the end of any Bible quote that i post. i am not open to debate right this second, but i feel the need to post this -

P.S. - i also usually highlight, bold or color certain words of my posts, or other people's posts to stress a point, which may or may not have been in the original message sent to me. i also apologize for my inability to post links and such, and i choose not to display websites in my posts.

i also submit, that most everything i type is in my own words, unless it's The Word Of God -

Justin's basis is off. Because it is an earlier understanding of some of these issues.

For what John 1:17 is relating is that that grace that Moses in the Law, and the Prophets [also] did say should come - the Christ - was made reality [true] in John's day.

John 1:

14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18. No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The Mystery is supposedly a temporary interruption [and it is, Romans 11:25-29, basically asserts that "the truth" - the realization of the above; which is actually Romans 15:8-12, was interrupted by the truth related in Romans 15:13-21].

Remove the Mystery [Romans thru Philemon] for a moment, and think on these things - then look at these Prophesied issues.

Force yourself to have to reconcile them by what the people depicted in Matthew thru John would have had access to, and understood things from.

Contrary to enemies of Dispensationalism [and even some within the camp] the NT alone does not interpret OT.

In fact, the OT also, greatly contributes to the interpretation of the NT.

The NT being Matthew thru Early Acts and Hebrews thru Revelation.

Note how that they know what this - Prophesied - grace is - John 1:

18. No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19. And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20. And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

They know of this grace - this one was Prophesied.

John the Baptist then basically tell them he is a part of their Prophesied plan and purpose:

22. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23. He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24. And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25. And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

You see that - they know about this grace - this one was Prophesied:

40. One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41. He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

1 Peter 1:

10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Jacob's ladder, had been near, brother!

His angels ready to descend and ascend at the bidding of the Son of man - His prophesied Millennial kingdom after His wrath had been that near!

No Mystery here...

Rather, the glory also of the Son - as to His Prophesied Grace!

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" John 1:14.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

For what John 1:17 is relating is that that grace that Moses in the Law, and the Prophets [also] did say should come - the Christ - was made reality [true] in John's day.

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven" (1 Pet.1:10-1).​

However, what the prophets did not know is the "mystery of the gospel," what the suffering of Christ did signify. They did not realize that His suffering was the essential thing which makes it possible for a person to be justified by grace, that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

The believer is redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb, the Lord Jesus:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

 

[patrick jane]

in The Acts Of The Apostles from the very beginning and before it was written, the Twelve knew and understood DBR. Paul was not the first to preach that particular piece of news. Peter, John and the Twelve knew that salvation was not for Jews ONLY.

Paul straightway preached to Jews and in synagogues and was heard by all, Greek, Roman, Jew, Gentile, believers or not. not until late Acts 13 does Paul declare his mission to Gentile/uncircumcision.

Matthias is chosen to replace Judas by the Holy Ghost. is Paul then the 13th ? each Apostle and disciple, all followers of Christ had a role and purpose in the Body, continuing to this day.

Paul has a different gospel than the others: a different message for different audiences and purposes. nit-picking specific points and details is fine for many, i know what God allows me to know as it's written

I have decided to go slower (if that's possible, lol) :zoomin:

 

[patrick jane]

does Paul's testimony of Christ meeting him on the road to Damascus get more detailed each time ?

Christ says - Acts 9:15-16 KJV

not gentiles only, but kings and the children of Israel; everyone. did Paul receive continuing revelations from Christ ? it seems so - does anyone here know exactly what happened to Paul after Acts 28 in Rome ?

 

[Danoh]

in The Acts Of The Apostles from the very beginning and before it was written, the Twelve knew and understood DBR. Paul was not the first to preach that particular piece of news. Peter, John and the Twelve knew that salvation was not for Jews ONLY.

Paul straightway preached to Jews and in synagogues and was heard by all, Greek, Roman, Jew, Gentile, believers or not. not until late Acts 13 does Paul declare his mission to Gentile/uncircumcision.

Matthias is chosen to replace Judas by the Holy Ghost. is Paul then the 13th ? each Apostle and disciple, all followers of Christ had a role and purpose in the Body, continuing to this day.

Paul has a different gospel than the others: a different message for different audiences and purposes. nit-picking specific points and details is fine for many, i know what God allows me to know as it's written

I have decided to go slower (if that's possible, lol) :zoomin:

Patrick,

You and I have always gotten along. So I want you to know that is where I am coming from as I ask you the following.

Not to prove you wrong, and certainly not to lord it over you, or attempt to shame you into concluding you are clueless without me, as some attempt to do to others, when, clearly; that is not what truth is for, Gal. 5: 12-13.

Rather; that we might explore our differences in understanding, and leave things at that, should we disagree, Acts 17:11; Rom. 14: 5, 10.

For, at the end of the day, "Jesus Christ" alone "and him crucified" is, and should be, the only issue, 1 Cor. 2:2.

That out of the way, but hopefully ever before us, and between us, I was wondering if you might share those passages you believe show the Twelve knew and taught the DBR before Paul, and also, where specifically those passages say exactly that.

In the spirit of 2 Cor. 1: 24's "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

 

[patrick jane]

Patrick,

You and I have always gotten along. So I want you to know that is where I am coming from as I ask you the following.

Not to prove you wrong, and certainly not to lord it over you, or attempt to shame you into concluding you are clueless without me, as some attempt to do to others, when, clearly; that is not what truth is for, Gal. 5: 12-13.

Rather; that we might explore our differences in understanding, and leave things at that, should we disagree, Acts 17:11; Rom. 14: 5, 10.

For, at the end of the day, "Jesus Christ" alone "and him crucified" is, and should be, the only issue, 1 Cor. 2:2.

That out of the way, but hopefully ever before us, and between us, I was wondering if you might share those passages you believe show the Twelve knew and taught the DBR before Paul, and also, where specifically those passages say exactly that.

In the spirit of 2 Cor. 1: 24's "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

Danoh,
i just now saw this post - yes, i will show what led me to think that way - i don't write things down like i should, but i'll work on it and already was b4 you posted this. i'm slow - btw, no offense taken at all, nothin' but good times here - thanks book 'em -

 

[patrick jane]

"GRACE AMBASSADORS MINISTRY UPDATE"

"August 8th, 2015
Selfishness and Grace

Selfishness is the sin that kills relationships.

Self-righteousness is religion.
Self-esteem is pride.
Self-gratification is lust.

When our self is inconvenienced, infringed, impugned, or injured we get angry, bitter, mean, and hateful.

Selfishness destroys your relationship to God and those around you.

The original sin was selfish when an entitled man and woman became vain in their imagination, darkened their hearts, and professed themselves to be wise.

Vanity is defined in the Bible as living for yourself.
Darkness in your heart is not able to shed light on anyone else, and selfish people always think they are wiser than everyone else.

If you only serve yourself you serve a fool (Rom 1:22).

The opposite of selfishness is grace. Grace is entirely unselfish. You cannot be selfish and gracious at the same time. Grace is doing for others, especially when they can't do, have not earned, or deserved.

If selfishness kills relationships, grace heals them.

We are saved by grace through faith in what God did for us through Christ. We are reconciled to God by his grace toward us.

Grace crucifies our self with Christ (Gal 2:20; Rom 6:5).
Grace esteems others better than ourselves, pleases our neighbour for his good, and is grateful to God for all he did for us.

Selfishness kills relationships, but grace gives, forgives, and provides new life and peace.

Make grace the principle in your relationship, and live peaceably with God and all men.

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." - Phil 1:2

For His glory,

~ Just a grace believer. Justin Johnson"



"Following the Lord in Baptism

The grace believer agrees that there is a baptism of the Lord that we must be baptized with. I would go so far as to declare with boldness that this baptism is necessary for my salvation! But we should know that Jesus was baptized twice, and the second is where we should pay attention."

From Grace Ambassadors - justin johnson

 

[patrick jane]

"GRACE AMBASSADORS MINISTRY UPDATE

June 20th, 2015
Philippians: The Mind of Christ"

"Paul tells the Corinthians that a spiritual man judges all things and has the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:15-16). The carnal Corinthians were not spiritual, nor did they have the mind of Christ(1 Cor 3:1-2).

If you ever wondered about the mind of Christ that Paul could not communicate to the Corinthians, then read Philippians repeatedly.

Philippians explains the mind of Christ in all its excellent detail.

Like the Corinthians, the Philippians needed reproof. Unlike the Corinthians, the Philippians were not carnal babes. They were faithful, charitable, and generous.

However, they had a wrong idea that Christian success relied too much on circumstance, status, and people, rather than on the Lord Jesus Christ and the power of his resurrection.

Paul was in prison and they were distraught. Epaphroditus was sick and they were worried. Suffering, opposition, and poverty were near them and they were fearful and full of care.

Paul teaches them how the same mind of Christ can lead to true rejoicing which otherwise is hindered by the uncertainty of our circumstances, weakness of our flesh, and cares of the world."



"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" - Phil 2:5

For His glory,

Justin "rejoicing" Johnson"

 

[patrick jane]

Patrick,

You and I have always gotten along. So I want you to know that is where I am coming from as I ask you the following.

Not to prove you wrong, and certainly not to lord it over you, or attempt to shame you into concluding you are clueless without me, as some attempt to do to others, when, clearly; that is not what truth is for, Gal. 5: 12-13.

Rather; that we might explore our differences in understanding, and leave things at that, should we disagree, Acts 17:11; Rom. 14: 5, 10.

For, at the end of the day, "Jesus Christ" alone "and him crucified" is, and should be, the only issue, 1 Cor. 2:2.

That out of the way, but hopefully ever before us, and between us, I was wondering if you might share those passages you believe show the Twelve knew and taught the DBR before Paul, and also, where specifically those passages say exactly that.

In the spirit of 2 Cor. 1: 24's "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

Danoh, sorry - sometimes i 4get which thread i'm on, what and where i posted etc. sometimes i think of a whole long post and write it my head and never post it lol-

i did post this statement somewhere and - i still say Jesus preached DBR and the 12 knew, BUT they didn't or may not have all fully understood yet

Act 2:23 KJV - Acts 2:24 KJV - Acts 2 :25 KJV -


Acts 2:31 KJV - Acts 2:32 KJV - Act 2:33 KJV - Acts 2:34 KJV -

Paul and Barnabas didn't even fully know by Acts 13, and not until after Acts 28 as Paul was still blessed with prophesying . technically we can say the dispensations toward Paul started in Acts 9; with ONGOING revelations even beyond The Acts -

Peter, John, Luke, James, Matthew and ALL the 12 and Paul, and ALL the Brethren, Disciples and chiefs etc, etc. took counsel, all were kept abreast and as informed as possible. even when they split up through ministry, preaching, persecution, travails and sickness they all knew the same preaching. maybe not all at the same time.

Paul says there is no difference, Jew or Greek and Gentile - - why do we try to make a difference even now - i don't.

my point was DBR was known in general before Paul saw/heard Christ,
the Apostles knew Christ's Life, DBR washed all sins away from believers by baptism in water.
i think some knew that the Gentiles would be brought in to salvation, perhaps at the same time as Paul, because PAUL TOLD THEM. remember of course, all of the many other folks and followers, ie Barnabas, Titus, the seven, all the brethren, men and women, even many many not mentioned in the Bible. it can't all be written, not every name and detail.

to me, debating the fine points of who what where when how is the wrong direction of abundant energy - iow, i don't care who said or did what first and then spend time and energy bickering and researching. even typing or acknowledging the behavior is a waste. even if it takes no energy. sometimes real spiritual growth and fellowship is missing -


but that's just me -