ECT How does God forgive?

[George Affleck]

​I came across this in daily devotional today and I invite you to comment on it; especially the underlined portion.
What say you?

Very few of us know anything about conviction of sin. We know the experience of being disturbed because we have done wrong things. But conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit blots out every relationship on earth and makes us aware of only one— “Against You, You only, have I sinned…” (Psalm 51:4). When a person is convicted of sin in this way, he knows with every bit of his conscience that God would not dare to forgive him. If God did forgive him, then this person would have a stronger sense of justice than God. God does forgive, but it cost the breaking of His heart with grief in the death of Christ to enable Him to do so. The great miracle of the grace of God is that He forgives sin, and it is the death of Jesus Christ alone that enables the divine nature to forgive and to remain true to itself in doing so. It is shallow nonsense to say that God forgives us because He is love. Once we have been convicted of sin, we will never say this again. The love of God means Calvary— nothing less! The love of God is spelled out on the Cross and nowhere else. The only basis for which God can forgive me is the Cross of Christ. It is there that His conscience is satisfied.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

​I came across this in daily devotional today and I invite you to comment on it; especially the underlined portion.
What say you?

Very few of us know anything about conviction of sin. We know the experience of being disturbed because we have done wrong things. But conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit blots out every relationship on earth and makes us aware of only one— “Against You, You only, have I sinned…” (Psalm 51:4). When a person is convicted of sin in this way, he knows with every bit of his conscience that God would not dare to forgive him. If God did forgive him, then this person would have a stronger sense of justice than God. God does forgive, but it cost the breaking of His heart with grief in the death of Christ to enable Him to do so. The great miracle of the grace of God is that He forgives sin, and it is the death of Jesus Christ alone that enables the divine nature to forgive and to remain true to itself in doing so. It is shallow nonsense to say that God forgives us because He is love. Once we have been convicted of sin, we will never say this again. The love of God means Calvary— nothing less! The love of God is spelled out on the Cross and nowhere else. The only basis for which God can forgive me is the Cross of Christ. It is there that His conscience is satisfied.

Where do they get the idea it broke God's heart?

Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

[Interplanner]

Where do they get the idea it broke God's heart?

Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Pleased in the sense of seeing justice done; if you don't know the grief of God about humanity's sin, you must not have read Gen 6. Did God grieve at the loss of human life in the Deluge?

 

[theophilus]

​I came across this in daily devotional today and I invite you to comment on it; especially the underlined portion.
What say you?

When a person is convicted of sin in this way, he knows with every bit of his conscience that God would not dare to forgive him.

I disagree with this statement. The person who wrote this is making God in our image...

It is God's delight to forgive those who believe in Him Whom He has sent. We may not think we deserve forgiveness (which we don't), however, that does not negate God's willingness to forgive and forget.

If God would not dare to forgive there would be no point to this psalm and the Atonement would never have had to happen.

God dared to kill Himself, essentially, so we could be forgiven.

(or I'm missing something.)

If God did forgive him, then this person would have a stronger sense of justice than God.

We certainly exercise a higher standard than God when He forgives us but we are unable to forgive ourselves.

Besides none of us can have anything more than God.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

God dared to kill Himself, essentially, so we could be forgiven.

(or I'm missing something.)

His son.

 

[theophilus]

His son.

Jesus IS God.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Pleased in the sense of seeing justice done;

Justice or mercy?

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

if you don't know the grief of God about humanity's sin, you must not have read Gen 6. Did God grieve at the loss of human life in the Deluge?

Who did he lose?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Jesus IS God.

In honor.

 

[theophilus]

In honor.

And Majesty and great Glory!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

And Majesty and great Glory!

 

[theophilus]

Rec. 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,

“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[Interplanner]

Justice or mercy?

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.




Who did he lose?

I can't quite related Heb 12:1 to the question of justice vs mercy. I assume you know from Rom 3:26 that both were accomplished.

Many perished in the Deluge, although they were preached to later says 1 Peter 4. But his sorrow was about how evil and violent they had become.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I can't quite related Heb 12:1 to the question of justice vs mercy.

Man did not receive justice at the cross.

I assume you know from Rom 3:26 that both were accomplished.

Justice being doled out and God being just are not always the same thing.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Rec. 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,

“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

Praise His Holy Name!

Amen.

 

[theophilus]

I can't quite related Heb 12:1 to the question of justice vs mercy. I assume you know from Rom 3:26 that both were accomplished.

Many perished in the Deluge, although they were preached to later says 1 Peter 4. But his sorrow was about how evil and violent they had become.

Gen. 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Amen.

 

[jamie]

God does forgive, but it cost the breaking of His heart with grief in the death of Christ to enable Him to do so.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

I believe the Father had hope and honored his Son's love.

In John 15:13-14 Jesus had said, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

A big if.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

One can not fully believe God has forgiven them (if He has) when one has continued to do the same things again.

LA

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

I believe the Father had hope and honored his Son's love.

In John 15:13-14 Jesus had said, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

A big if.

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[George Affleck]

When a person is convicted of sin in this way, he knows with every bit of his conscience that God would not dare to forgive him.

I disagree with this statement. The person who wrote this is making God in our image...

It is God's delight to forgive those who believe in Him Whom He has sent. We may not think we deserve forgiveness (which we don't), however, that does not negate God's willingness to forgive and forget.

If God would not dare to forgive there would be no point to this psalm and the Atonement would never have had to happen.

God dared to kill Himself, essentially, so we could be forgiven.

(or I'm missing something.)

I had similar confusion on this the way it is put and the same thoughts went through my mind.
But on further reflection I wonder if this is what is meant:

The convicted unbeliever has an innate sense of justice stemming from conscience. He reasons that, if God is God, it would make sense that He would need an excellent reason to forgive or He wouldn't do it. What kind of God would just sweep such an affront under the carpet and say; "Don't worry, I love you so all is forgiven". This does not make sense to him. It's less than half an answer. Indeed, why the need for conviction at all? Cheer up! God is love. He doesn't mind! This is the kind of thinking that universalism is made of. (The doctrine that all are saved) No unbeliever who is truly convicted of sin against his Maker has the ability to leap from where the Holy Spirit has brought him to this strange place where even his conscience has no meaning.

If God did forgive him, then this person would have a stronger sense of justice than God.

We certainly exercise a higher standard than God when He forgives us but we are unable to forgive ourselves.

Besides none of us can have anything more than God.

The unbeliever who is convicted of sin against an all holy God is wringing his hands and in search of a solution for his newly realized condition. He already recognizes that punishment is required and imminent. If God "poofed" away his sin at this point it would not be justice and God would not be God after all. Common sense requires that justice prevail. But when the Scapegoat appears with nail-pierced hands, his sin has a place to go and justice is appeased. His attention is then focused on the One his attention should be on; his Saviour, his sin-bearer.

At great cost God has solved his problem. The Father watched as the Son died. The Son died while His Father watched. Only with this knowledge can this one who has his burden relieved know what the love of God really is. The excellent reason for forgiveness is revealed to him. It is in the inestimable cost to the Father and the Son at the cross.

 

[marhig]

​I came across this in daily devotional today and I invite you to comment on it; especially the underlined portion.
What say you?

Very few of us know anything about conviction of sin. We know the experience of being disturbed because we have done wrong things. But conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit blots out every relationship on earth and makes us aware of only one— “Against You, You only, have I sinned…” (Psalm 51:4). When a person is convicted of sin in this way, he knows with every bit of his conscience that God would not dare to forgive him. If God did forgive him, then this person would have a stronger sense of justice than God. God does forgive, but it cost the breaking of His heart with grief in the death of Christ to enable Him to do so. The great miracle of the grace of God is that He forgives sin, and it is the death of Jesus Christ alone that enables the divine nature to forgive and to remain true to itself in doing so. It is shallow nonsense to say that God forgives us because He is love. Once we have been convicted of sin, we will never say this again. The love of God means Calvary— nothing less! The love of God is spelled out on the Cross and nowhere else. The only basis for which God can forgive me is the Cross of Christ. It is there that His conscience is satisfied.

Where does it say in the Bible that God forgives through the death of Jesus on the cross?

It says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith. And Jesus teaches us that we are first to repent and believe. We are saved from our past sins when we hear the word of God and repent, through faith and by the grace of God.

Then we are saved daily through faith in God and Christ and by the resurrection of Christ in our hearts by the spirit. It says in the Bible that we are saved by the life of Jesus, and that if we keep his commandments, that he will make himself known to us. And it also says that as we forgive others, God forgives us.

Romans 5

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 1

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

John 14

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

And again in John 14

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

... Also, Jesus was saving before he died on the cross, and he said that he had finished work that the father had given him to do before he went on the cross too.

John 17

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.*And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.*I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do

And he came to do the will of God and Jesus said the everyone who sees the son and believes on him may have everlasting life. There's nothing to do with believing on his death on the cross there, but believing in him. And if we truly believe in him, then we will repent and turn from sin and obey God.

John 6

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.*And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And Jesus came here to bare witness to the truth

John 18

Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Many speak about Jesus dying for them so that they can live.

What about us dying for Christ, so that he can live?

God wants a living Jesus, Christ manifest in us and to see his son in us and this happens as we die the death. We must decrease so that Christ can increase.