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How does one determine, using the scientific method, that the earth is billions of years old?

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There have been many creation events with many beginnings.
Continuing to make false claims and, of course, without any evidence whatsoever.
After each of the 5 mass extinctions there was an "adaptive radiation" or creation event.
Baloney.
The Cambrian explosion was a creation event.
Baloney. The "Cambrian explosion" is simply a layer in the deposits of sediment caused by the Flood.
The Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago was a beginning.
Fake news. The "Big Bang" never happened.
In the very, very beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
Attempting to quote the Bible; how cute.
Prior to the creation of the universe, meaning more than 13.7 billion years ago God created the angels including Lucifer.

Eze 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stonesof fire.

Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Nowhere in these scriptures does it say anything about "creation prior to the universe". That's just something that you've tried to invent.
And 6000 years ago was another beginning, the creation of the modern biota including Adam and Eve. And yes, from that very beginning, "God made them male and female". We read about it in Gen 1 and Genesis 2.
Mark 10:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

You are trying to fudge the facts.

P.S. Get on the topic or got out of this thread.
 
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JudgeRightly

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Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


The "morning stars" or angels sang, the "sons of God" or angels shouted for joy when earth was created.

Thus the angels creation preceded the creation of the earth..

Eze 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stonesof fire.

Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

As RD said:

Nowhere in these scriptures does it say anything about "creation prior to the universe". That's just something that you've tried to invent.

Mark 10:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

The creation.

Noun.

Refers to the universe, the earth, the seas, and everything within them.

Man was made at the beginning of it, not billions of years after the beginning.
 

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Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


The "morning stars" or angels sang, the "sons of God" or angels shouted for joy when earth was created.

Thus the angels creation preceded the creation of the earth..

Eze 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stonesof fire.

Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
I can see why you assume that these support your position.

Now.... GET ON THE TOPIC.
 

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Raqia means firmament means "sky" where the birds fly. Strong's H7549

Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly abovethe earth in the open firmament H7549 of heaven.

Are you saying it's something different?
That is incorrect, the firmament OF HEAVEN is the sky. The firmament in verses 6-8 is NOT the sky. It is the crust of the earth that separated the waters above and below.
 

JudgeRightly

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Gen 1:8
And God called the firmament H7549 Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

God called the firmament HEAVEN. But RD calls it "the crust of the earth". Now who am I to believe? :confused:

The firmament called "Heaven" is the crust of the earth.

The "firmament of the heavens" is the sky, because the sky is something in which the stars were set, giving the appearance of them being "firm."

I will address this and your previous posts in more detail when I have the time.
 

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@iouae If you believe that there is only one firmament, then you must believe that half of the water that God created in the beginning is ABOVE the sun, moon and stars. Do you see how wrong that is?
 

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There are 3 heavens. 1) the sky 2) the universe 3) where God lives. On Day 2 God cleared the sky so that there were waters above the sky/firmament or clouds, and water below the sky/firmament called ocean. There is no mention of "half" or how much water was in each.
Regardless of the exact quantities of the division of the waters, you are claiming that there is a significant amount of water "above the sun, moon and stars". That is grossly incorrect.

Gen 1:14-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:14) ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: (1:15) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (1:16) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. (1:17) And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, (1:18) And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good. (1:19) And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
 

JudgeRightly

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Raqia means firmament means "sky" where the birds fly. Strong's H7549

Rather, what it means is "something spread or pounded out, like metal."


Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly abovethe earth in the open firmament H7549 of heaven.

Are you saying it's something different?

As I said in my previous post, the "firmament of the heavens" refers to the sky.

But the firmament called "Heaven" refers to the crust of the earth. This firmament was created "in the midst of the waters, dividing the waters below from the waters above.

Guess where those waters were before God created that firmament?

Earth.

Genesis 1:2.

Gen 1:8
And God called the firmament H7549 Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

God called the firmament HEAVEN. But RD calls it "the crust of the earth". Now who am I to believe? :confused:

God.

God called the firmament that He created in the midst of the waters that were on earth "Heaven."

There are 3 heavens. 1) the sky 2) the universe 3) where God lives.

Rather, there are more than three.

But the relevant ones here are "the sky" and "where God lives."

Do you think God lived somewhere else after He created the earth?

I don't, because the Bible tells us that Adam walked with God in the Garden.

The firmament, where God created everything on Earth, was called heaven, and the dry land was called "Earth," and the waters gathered ABOVE the firmament were called Seas.

The waters BELOW the firmament called Heaven were "the deep" mentioned in verse 2.

Earth was literally Heaven, a paradise.

On Day 2 God cleared the sky so that there were waters above the sky/firmament or clouds,

This is an ad hoc explanation. There are no verses that say nor that "God cleared the sky..."

and water below the sky/firmament called ocean.

Except that there were no oceans, only Seas. And the Seas were above the firmament called Heaven, "under the heavens."

There is no mention of "half" or how much water was in each.

There is. We can get a rough estimate, at least, with verse 6:

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
1668886000188_image.png

"Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place and let the dry land appear."
1668886009834_image.png
image.png
 
Yes. Most definitely. The following people can:

Neil deGrasse Tyson
Richard Dawkins
Daniel Dennett
Greg Graffin
Steven Pinker
Matt Ridley
Carl Sagan
Peter Atkins
Robert Ardrey
Bill Nye, the Science Guy
Walter White aka Heisenberg
While ignoring changes to decay rates in a universe increasing in acceleration….

While proclaiming their belief in Relativity…..
 
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Why then, does Genesis 1: 8a state, “And God called the expanse heaven” ? Here are two interpretations:

a. “The expanse” meant the atmosphere or outer space.

b. “The expanse” meant “heaven”—where God dwelt—the original paradise. Recall that God “walked” and “talked” with Adam (Genesis 3:8–9), so heaven was originally on the Earth—on the Earth’s crust.

If “heaven” meant atmosphere or outer space, then the Septuagint and Vulgate translators incorrectly associated solidness with it. Notice also that the similarities of raqia ((ayqirf) with baqia ((ayqib@f) and raqa ((qarf) support the second interpretation. [See page 534.] If raqia (expanse or firmament) always means atmosphere or outer space, five questions, or apparent textual contradictions, arise.

Question 1: Why was the word raqia followed by the phrase “of the heavens” in Genesis 1:14, 15, 17, and 20? That would be redundant.

Question 2: If raqia implies a canopy, why wasn’t one of the three Hebrew words that clearly means “canopy” used?

Question 3: Genesis 1:1 says that the heavens were created on the first day.19 However, if raqia always means “heaven” (atmosphere or outer space), then Genesis 1: 8a says heaven was created on the second day. Also, Genesis 1: 8a defines heaven after the word “heavens” was first used in Genesis 1:1. Normally, a word’s meaning is understood from the context of its first usage.

After struggling to understand Genesis 1:8a for 30 years, I described several possible interpretations of Genesis 1:8a in the 7th edition (2001) of this book. In 2005, I received independent letters from two pastors proposing an explanation.22 Before Adam’s fall, Earth was a paradise; in a sense, it was “heaven on Earth.” Therefore, God called the firmament (Earth’s crust) heaven. (Notice: God did not call heaven “the firmament.”) Each pastor provided different biblical reasons for his view, but both maintained that our difficulty in understanding Genesis 1:8a results largely from our inability to imagine the original paradise. If man had not fallen, no one would have difficulty with the fact that God called the Earth “heaven.”

Confirmation of this is in Randy Alcorn’s outstanding book, Heaven (2004).23 His case is so detailed, voluminous, and strong that any attempt to summarize it here would not do justice to his work. As Alcorn points out, nonbiblical stereotypes of heaven have crept into our Christian culture. I believe this accounts for much of our confusion over Genesis 1:8a. (Every Christian should study what the Bible actually says.) Earth was created with the intention that it would be heaven. The fall temporarily delayed that plan, and the Earth was cursed. Alcorn also discusses the future “new Earth.”

Those who reject this proposed understanding of expanseand Genesis 1:8a should carefully weigh the two choices.

HPT
 
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