I Lived Through Collapse. America Is Already There.

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
The people whom you're defending had "final orders of removal from an immigration judge."

The fact that they were living in a US citizen's house should concern you.

Wrong.

I wonder why.

Who'd want to admit that they have two criminals, one of whom is a pedophile, living in their family's home?


Thao’s family said in a statement that it “categorically disputes” the DHS account and “strongly objects to DHS’s attempt to publicly justify this conduct with false and misleading claims.”

Thao told the AP that only he, his son and daughter-in-law and his grandson live at the rental home. Neither they nor the property’s owner are listed in the Minnesota sex offender registry. The nearest sex offender listed as living in the zip code is more than two blocks away.

DHS later released the names and photos of two people it described as “violent illegal alien sexual offenders” that it was seeking to detain in St. Paul. Thao said he had never seen these men before and they did not live with him.




So what?

These "protesters" are harassing law enforcement officers as they try to do their jobs of removing illegal aliens from our country.

Pepper spray should be the least of their concerns.

"So what" that Noem lies? Then none of what she says can be taken at face value.

"Raheem Kassam"?

Who's that?

He sounds foreign.

Yeah, that tracks.

Settlers are not immigrants.

😂


And if they wanted to live here, to immigrate, to become Americans, why are they not assimilating?

So you're the arbiter of assimilation excellence now?

Ignoring the posts I cited won't make them go away, Anna.

I give them the time you give mine, JR.


Can you condemn the things that the VA government is doing?

Do it. Right here, right now.

You won't.

You're not even aware of what's going on, but not because you aren't finding it.

You don't want to. You refuse to see with your own eyes, simply because of your bias against X, because it's become more pro-1A than any other site. And that scares you.

You want me to condemn a bill in VA when we're talking about ICE in Minnesota?

Right here, right now, even? Why are you jumping boats midstream and demanding I jump with you? Diversion?

I'm not finished with this subject.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
People start to pay attention when it starts hitting close to home.

ICE agents pull guns on police officers 'of color' and demand papers: MN chief


Brooklyn Park Police Chief Mark Bruley revealed that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents have been pulling guns on off-duty officers of color while illegally demanding their citizenship papers.

At a press conference on Tuesday, Bruley said he opposed abolishing ICE but disagreed with how federal officers were carrying out immigration enforcement.

"Recently, as the last two weeks, we as law enforcement community have been receiving endless complaints about civil rights violations in our streets from US citizens," he said. "What we're hearing is they're being stopped in traffic stops or on the street with no cause and being forced to show paperwork to determine if they are here legally."

"As this went on over the past two weeks, we started hearing from our police officers the same complaints as they fell victim to this while off duty," he continued. "Every one of these individuals is a person of color who has had this happen to them."


Bruley said ICE "boxed in" one officer on a roadway.

"They demanded her paperwork, of which she's a US citizen and clearly would not have any paperwork," he said. "When she became concerned about the rhetoric and the way she was being treated, she pulled out her phone in an attempt to record the incident, the phone was knocked out of her hands, prevented her from recording it."

"The officer had their gun drawn during this interaction," he added. "And after the officer became so concerned, they were forced to identify themselves as a Brooklyn Park police officer in hopes of slowing the incident and de-escalating the incident down."

"The agents then immediately left after hearing this, making no other comments, no other apologies, just got in their vehicles and left."

Bruley said the anecdote was not an isolated incident.

"In fact, many of the chiefs standing behind me have similar incidents with their off-duty officers," he remarked. "This isn't just important because it happened to off-duty police officers, but what it did do is we know that our officers know what the Constitution is, they know what right and wrong is, and they know when people are being targeted, and that's what they were."

"If it is happening to our officers, it pains me to think of how many of our community members are falling victim to this every day. It has to stop."
 

JudgeRightly

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Thao’s family said in a statement that it “categorically disputes” the DHS account and “strongly objects to DHS’s attempt to publicly justify this conduct with false and misleading claims.”

Thao told the AP that only he, his son and daughter-in-law and his grandson live at the rental home. Neither they nor the property’s owner are listed in the Minnesota sex offender registry. The nearest sex offender listed as living in the zip code is more than two blocks away.

DHS later released the names and photos of two people it described as “violent illegal alien sexual offenders” that it was seeking to detain in St. Paul. Thao said he had never seen these men before and they did not live with him.



Per Grok's analysis:

The best defense for ICE's actions in the January 18, 2026, detention of ChongLy "Scott" Thao centers on the operational context, standard law enforcement protocols, and the pursuit of public safety amid a targeted enforcement effort. While the incident has drawn criticism for its aggressiveness and impact on a U.S. citizen, DHS and ICE have maintained that their conduct was justified based on intelligence, risk assessment, and procedural norms. Below, I'll outline the strongest factual arguments in their favor, drawing from official statements and consistent reporting, without endorsing or dismissing counterclaims from Thao's family (e.g., denials of any connection to the targets or disputes over cooperation).
  1. Targeted Operation Against Serious Criminals
    ICE agents were executing a focused raid to apprehend two specific individuals with active deportation orders: Kongmeng Vang and Lue Moua, both convicted sex offenders. Vang's convictions include sexual assault, gang activity, and assault, while Moua's include rape, kidnapping, and domestic violence—crimes that pose significant public safety risks. Defenders argue this aligns with ICE's mandate under the Trump administration to prioritize deportations of criminals, emphasizing that failing to act on such threats could endanger communities. The operation was not random but based on intelligence linking the targets to Thao's address (possibly as former residents or associates), justifying the location choice.
  2. Physical Resemblance and Initial Non-Cooperation
    Thao reportedly matched the physical description of one or both targets, prompting agents to detain him for verification. DHS stated that Thao refused fingerprinting or facial identification at the scene, necessitating temporary custody to confirm his status safely. In high-stakes raids involving potentially dangerous fugitives, such protocols prevent misidentification risks or escapes. Supporters note that quick resolution (release after about an hour, once citizenship was verified via fingerprinting) demonstrates efficiency, not malice.
  3. Standard Safety Protocols in Law Enforcement Operations
    DHS emphasized that detaining all individuals in a targeted residence is "standard protocol" for any law enforcement agency during such operations, to ensure the safety of officers, residents, and the public. This includes drawn weapons and forced entry if exigent circumstances exist (e.g., pursuing violent offenders who might be armed or fleeing). The raid occurred in the context of a broader surge in Minnesota enforcement (up to 3,000 agents deployed), where similar tactics have been used to address deportation backlogs. Critics' focus on the lack of an initial warrant presentation overlooks that administrative warrants (common in immigration enforcement) may not require judicial approval for entry in certain scenarios, and agents reportedly had one, though not immediately shown.
  4. No Lasting Harm and Prompt Release
    Thao was not charged, injured, or held beyond verification, and was returned home without incident. DHS has not confirmed an apology, but the swift correction supports the argument that this was an unfortunate but defensible error in a fluid, high-risk situation—comparable to mistaken-identity incidents in other policing contexts. The targets remain at large, underscoring the urgency of the operation.
In summary, ICE's strongest defense portrays the incident as a necessary, protocol-driven response to credible threats from dangerous individuals, with Thao's detention as a brief precautionary measure due to resemblance and non-cooperation. This view prioritizes enforcement efficacy and officer safety over the acknowledged disruption to an innocent citizen. However, unresolved disputes (e.g., the exact address link or warrant details) could weaken this if proven inaccurate in potential litigation, as Thao's family has indicated plans for a civil rights lawsuit.



The point here is that ICE's actions are justifiable, even if they made a mistake. Framing their actions as though they're tyranny isn't helping anyone.

"So what" that Noem lies? Then none of what she says can be taken at face value.

Riiiiiiiight...

So when you lie, we shouldn't take what you say at face value? Asking for a friend...

So you're the arbiter of assimilation excellence now?

All I'm asking for is the bare minimum.

They can't even do that much.

Learn English. Adhere to American values. Call America their home and strive to increase the value of the nation they came to.

Instead, they refuse to learn English, they communicate in their native tongue. (eg the trucking industry)
They import their own nations values and let them take precedent over ours. (eg sharia law)
They call the nation they came from home, and send most of what they earn to their families who remain there. (eg Ilhan Omar, Somali daycare fraud)

They're nothing but leeches.

If they want to enrich a nation, let them enrich their own.

I give them the time you give mine, JR.

False.

You want me to condemn a bill in VA

Yes. Because of what it's about.

when we're talking about ICE in Minnesota?

Let's not lose track of what was said now, Anna.

You said that the Republicans have control of the Federal government.

I pointed out that they're powerless because of the stranglehold the left has on the country.

I then gave an example of this, that being Virginia.

Still with me?

Right here, right now, even? Why are you jumping boats midstream and demanding I jump with you? Diversion?

I'm not finished with this subject.

See, you can't even condemn the bills that effectively legitimize capital crimes by removing the punishments for them.

You're evil. Your opinions are irrelevant,

You can't even condemn the evil bills when they've been shoved in your face, why, because "I, Anna, don't like X! Waahhhh!"
 

JudgeRightly

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The part most of you leftists keep leaving out.

They couldn't verify his identity, and he matched the descriptions of one the people they're after, and because he wouldn't cooperate and identify himself, they detained him until they could.


.@RealTomHoman: This individual "matched the description [of a target] but they couldn't verify his identity because he was uncooperative... So ICE detained him until they found out who he was. ICE can detain a U.S. citizen if they have probable cause that this person may have committed a crime."



 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Per Grok's analysis:

The best defense for ICE's actions in the January 18, 2026, detention of ChongLy "Scott" Thao centers on the operational context, standard law enforcement protocols, and the pursuit of public safety amid a targeted enforcement effort. While the incident has drawn criticism for its aggressiveness and impact on a U.S. citizen, DHS and ICE have maintained that their conduct was justified based on intelligence, risk assessment, and procedural norms. Below, I'll outline the strongest factual arguments in their favor, drawing from official statements and consistent reporting, without endorsing or dismissing counterclaims from Thao's family (e.g., denials of any connection to the targets or disputes over cooperation).
  1. Targeted Operation Against Serious Criminals
    ICE agents were executing a focused raid to apprehend two specific individuals with active deportation orders: Kongmeng Vang and Lue Moua, both convicted sex offenders. Vang's convictions include sexual assault, gang activity, and assault, while Moua's include rape, kidnapping, and domestic violence—crimes that pose significant public safety risks. Defenders argue this aligns with ICE's mandate under the Trump administration to prioritize deportations of criminals, emphasizing that failing to act on such threats could endanger communities. The operation was not random but based on intelligence linking the targets to Thao's address (possibly as former residents or associates), justifying the location choice.
  2. Physical Resemblance and Initial Non-Cooperation
    Thao reportedly matched the physical description of one or both targets, prompting agents to detain him for verification. DHS stated that Thao refused fingerprinting or facial identification at the scene, necessitating temporary custody to confirm his status safely. In high-stakes raids involving potentially dangerous fugitives, such protocols prevent misidentification risks or escapes. Supporters note that quick resolution (release after about an hour, once citizenship was verified via fingerprinting) demonstrates efficiency, not malice.
  3. Standard Safety Protocols in Law Enforcement Operations
    DHS emphasized that detaining all individuals in a targeted residence is "standard protocol" for any law enforcement agency during such operations, to ensure the safety of officers, residents, and the public. This includes drawn weapons and forced entry if exigent circumstances exist (e.g., pursuing violent offenders who might be armed or fleeing). The raid occurred in the context of a broader surge in Minnesota enforcement (up to 3,000 agents deployed), where similar tactics have been used to address deportation backlogs. Critics' focus on the lack of an initial warrant presentation overlooks that administrative warrants (common in immigration enforcement) may not require judicial approval for entry in certain scenarios, and agents reportedly had one, though not immediately shown.
  4. No Lasting Harm and Prompt Release
    Thao was not charged, injured, or held beyond verification, and was returned home without incident. DHS has not confirmed an apology, but the swift correction supports the argument that this was an unfortunate but defensible error in a fluid, high-risk situation—comparable to mistaken-identity incidents in other policing contexts. The targets remain at large, underscoring the urgency of the operation.
In summary, ICE's strongest defense portrays the incident as a necessary, protocol-driven response to credible threats from dangerous individuals, with Thao's detention as a brief precautionary measure due to resemblance and non-cooperation. This view prioritizes enforcement efficacy and officer safety over the acknowledged disruption to an innocent citizen. However, unresolved disputes (e.g., the exact address link or warrant details) could weaken this if proven inaccurate in potential litigation, as Thao's family has indicated plans for a civil rights lawsuit.



The point here is that ICE's actions are justifiable, even if they made a mistake. Framing their actions as though they're tyranny isn't helping anyone.


The point here, as has been all along, that ICE's actions were illegal in a way that *should* have had conservatives in an uproar.

But who cares, right?

Riiiiiiiight...

So when you lie, we shouldn't take what you say at face value? Asking for a friend...

I don't lie. Noem does. Can you get past your personal animosity towards me and admit that the administration is lying about ICE methods and actions, allowing them to act outside the law and to terrorize a population with impunity, for political theater?

All I'm asking for is the bare minimum.

They can't even do that much.

Learn English. Adhere to American values. Call America their home and strive to increase the value of the nation they came to.

Instead, they refuse to learn English, they communicate in their native tongue. (eg the trucking industry)
They import their own nations values and let them take precedent over ours. (eg sharia law)
They call the nation they came from home, and send most of what they earn to their families who remain there. (eg Ilhan Omar, Somali daycare fraud)

They're nothing but leeches.

If they want to enrich a nation, let them enrich their own.

They, they, they.

The above is very dehumanizing. Is that your intent?


Let's not lose track of what was said now, Anna.

You said that the Republicans have control of the Federal government.

I pointed out that they're powerless because of the stranglehold the left has on the country.

I then gave an example of this, that being Virginia.

Still with me?

Your example is state business. Not federal. Apples and oranges, pointing to state legislation to say see, the Federal Government which is wholly controlled by MAGA Republicans is powerless!

You'd be quick to point out we're a republic, not a democracy (we're actually a democratic republic). Well, part of being a republic is that states have sovereignty. This was always the battle cry of conservatives who seem to have laid that flag down as long as they're controlling the federal government. So now, because one state isn't doing what you want (I haven't read any background so I won't formulate an opinion at this point) you're saying their state legislation has a stranglehold on the country? Red states do their thing, blue states do their thing. That's how it works. And that's how conservatives want it to work right? Or do they not anymore? Do they now want the overarching power of the federal government to remove states' rights so they can impose... what? I know the answer, do you want to say it?


See, you can't even condemn the bills that effectively legitimize capital crimes by removing the punishments for them.

As has often been the case when I've looked into bills the radical right get outraged about because they saw a clip on social media that doesn't tell the whole story, I'll reserve judgment for when I've had a thorough look. I don't have time for that at the moment.
 

JudgeRightly

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The point here, as has been all along, that ICE's actions were illegal in a way that *should* have had conservatives in an uproar.

The point is that the left hasn't care about constitutionality for decades, and the "right" cares more about principles than wielding power to defeat the evil that is the left, taking on the mantle of only ever losing gracefully as the left ravages their spoils of victory.

The point is that what ICE did was NOT in fact illegal, and more of it needs to happen, so that we can get the filth out of the country.

I don't lie.

That's a lie, you liar.

Noem does. Can you get past your personal animosity towards me and admit that the administration is lying about ICE methods and actions, allowing them to act outside the law and to terrorize a population with impunity, for political theater?

Except they haven't.

You should watch the video of Tom Homan in my previous post.

Or is he a liar too?

They, they, they.

The above is very dehumanizing. Is that your intent?

Define "dehumanizing." Is calling someone a "leech" literally denying personhood, or is it moral condemnation of behavior?

If you disagree with what I said, address the criteria: what should be done about non-assimilation and net dependency, and why?

Nowhere have I denied their humanity. Quit tone policing and address what I said, without the loaded questions.

Your example is state business. Not federal. Apples and oranges, pointing to state legislation to say see, the Federal Government which is wholly controlled by MAGA Republicans is powerless!

Just because someone holds a position of power doesn't mean they then have the leeway to do whatever they want. Especially when they're more concerned about getting the approval of the left.

The purpose of a system is what it does.

If the federal government is controlled by one party, but a state government is controlled by another, who is effectively ruling over the state? The state government, right?

Corruption exists at all levels. You think just because "MAGA" has control of the Federal government that they're willing to do anything they want with impunity? Think again.

You'd be quick to point out we're a republic, not a democracy (we're actually a democratic republic). Well, part of being a republic is that states have sovereignty. This was always the battle cry of conservatives who seem to have laid that flag down as long as they're controlling the federal government.

Exactly my point.

So now, because one state isn't doing what you want (I haven't read any background so I won't formulate an opinion at this point)

You should do that before continuing. Otherwise, you just come off as willfully ignorant.

you're saying their state legislation has a stranglehold on the country?

I'm saying that it's one more example of the stranglehold the left has had on our country for the past 60 years.

Ever heard of the boiling the frog analogy? Where if you place a frog in boiling water, he'll try to escape, but if you place him in cold water, and slowly bring it to a boil, he'll remain passive?

Yeah, that's what's going on with our country. Except the people are waking up, starting to notice that the water is getting really hot.

Though, it's probably already to late at this point.

Red states do their thing, blue states do their thing. That's how it works.

And that's entirely the problem.

The left has infiltrated the ideologies of both sides, more so in the states where they hold power.

It's resulted in conservatives trying to conserve the leftist position from 10 years ago. It has resulted in republicans promoting legislation and policy that only benefits the left.

And that's how conservatives want it to work right? Or do they not anymore? Do they now want the overarching power of the federal government to remove states' rights so they can impose what? I know the answer, do you want to say it?

I'm not a conservative.

But a conservative would want to conserve the current state of the nation from a decade prior.

I want the federal government to wield its power unapologetically, and destroy the left, because they're evil, and we should not tolerate that which is evil.

As has often been the case when I've looked into bills conservatives get outraged about because they say a clip on social media that doesn't tell the whole story, I'll reserve judgment for when I've had a thorough look.

I literally posted the very bills in question.

Instead of ignoring them, try seeing what your beloved left is doing with your own eyes.

I don't have time for that at the moment.

Do it before the next time you post on TOL.

Here's the link to them:
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
The point is that what ICE did was NOT in fact illegal, and more of it needs to happen, so that we can get the filth out of the country.

It was. And the man they arrested after breaking into his house without a warrant isn't "filth" and is a citizen.

This is what you're ignoring.

That's a lie, you liar.
Quit tone policing

It's not tone policing to say that the way you talk about immigrants dehumanizes them. It's stating a fact.

Just because someone holds a position of power doesn't mean they then have the leeway to do whatever they want. Especially when they're more concerned about getting the approval of the left.

The purpose of a system is what it does.

If the federal government is controlled by one party, but a state government is controlled by another, who is effectively ruling over the state? The state government, right?

Corruption exists at all levels. You think just because "MAGA" has control of the Federal government that they're willing to do anything they want with impunity? Think again.

This changes nothing. Whether you agree or disagree, VA has the right to work out their own legislation at the state level.


The Tenth Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.



This doesn't have anything at all to do with the current control of the federal government by MAGA. The federal buck stops with MAGA.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Define "dehumanizing." Is calling someone a "leech" literally denying personhood, or is it moral condemnation of behavior?

It's reminiscent of Hitler calling the Jews rats.


Jews were frequently represented as a pestilent species like rats or cockroaches in Germany as the Nazi party rose to power. Der Stürmer, a weekly newspaper notorious for its virulent antisemitism, depicted a Nazi gassing Jewish 'rats' huddled around the base of a tree in one cover image from as early as 1927. "When the vermin are dead," the caption said, "the German oak will flourish once more.​
The Nazis were not the first to use comparisons with rats to dehumanise targets. In 1909, the US satirical magazine Puck published a cartoon that depicted European immigrants arriving in New York City as a swarm of rodents. As recently as 2015, the Daily Mail ran a cartoon that showed refugees arriving in Europe from the Middle East and North Africa, with rats scurrying alongside them.​


I don't like the term MAGAts used by some progressives for the same reason.


If you disagree with what I said, address the criteria: what should be done about non-assimilation and net dependency, and why?

Why are you concerned about non-assimilation? How does it affect your life? Why does it make you angry? Have you considered it's a narrative pushed by xenophobes that has little basis in fact, but is useful for fomenting outrage on social media? Do you go through your days angry because you don't think immigrants are properly assimilating to your satisfaction?

what-history-tells-us-about-assimilation-immigrants


If the federal government is controlled by one party, but a state government is controlled by another, who is effectively ruling over the state? The state government, right?

Take a look again at the Tenth Amendment for where the federal government ends and the state government begins.

You think just because "MAGA" has control of the Federal government that they're willing to do anything they want with impunity?

Absolutely. That's exactly what they've been doing! Step outside the radical right bubble.

I want the federal government to wield its power unapologetically, and destroy the left, because they're evil, and we should not tolerate that which is evil.

I want the federal government to adhere to the Constitution with its powers and its limitations of powers.

I sound like a patriot and you sound like a radical.

What does "destroy the left" mean to you in practice, really? Who is "the left?" Do they have the same constitutional rights that you claim for yourself? If you say no, then you really ought to move to Belarus or Hungary, you'd be happier there.

I literally posted the very bills in question.


You don't live in VA. Why in the world are you so incensed about their legislative process? Because the population of VA elected Democratic representatives? Isn't that their right?

I looked at those bills. There's no way you or I could process all the legislative language of those bills well enough to have a knowledgable discussion of them just by looking at that post. You were drawn by the clickbait headline:

Democrats take absolute power in Virginia and the first thing they do is introduce the “Legalize Crime”, “Steal All Future Elections”, and “Duplicate Somali Daycare Fraud” Acts.

First of all, "take absolute power" means Democrats won their elections in the state of Virginia. It's that simple. But the content generator needed a scary headline and "take absolute power" just sounds so much more scary than a Democratic woman decisively won the race for governor, doesn't it?

Second, "Legalize crime, steal all future elections, and duplicate Somali Daycare Fraud Acts?" Really?

That's so unserious, JR. It's social media churn.

I'd take a serious article looking at the pros and cons, and give credit or criticism where it's due. Not all legislation is good legislation. That goes for both sides of the aisle. Find me serious arguments for and against, and I'll look at them even though I'm absolutely not interested at the moment in Virginia politics and I'm bemused as to why you are.

So no, I will not spend time on an X poster who's horrified that the birth rate is higher in Africa than it is here.

You can do better. I hope you will someday. I really do.
 
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