Is death just another life?

[Right Divider]

That sounds pretty interesting, but where did it come from? I haven't read such in the Bible.

I agree. I'd like to see some scriptural support. I comes off a bit new age to me.

 

[Soul]

Welcome to the forum, Soul.

Thank you.

But not omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent? Why not? And if not, how can you be sure of the "immortal" part, especially when God said they could die? Doesn't "immortal" mean you either can't or won't ever die? Therefore, if immortality was part of God's image in Adam, it wasn't a very convincing part.

Refer back to the middle section of post #559 regarding immortality. Then, consider Eccles. 12:7: "...and the spirit return to God, who gave it."

That sounds pretty interesting, but where did it come from? I haven't read such in the Bible.

It was the understanding of a disciple of Jesus, a woman named "Syntyche," whom He told was correct (Poem of the Man-God: Vol. III). Jesus spoke similarly in Jn. 5:24 when He said, "...he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life."

 

[Soul]

It comes off a bit new age to me.

So, the idea that true Life begins after death when one is born to the eternal life with God is in your view "new age," and thus false?

 

[Derf]

Thank you.



Refer back to the middle section of post #559 regarding immortality. Then, consider Eccles. 12:7: "...and the spirit return to God, who gave it."

God didn't "give" man a soul, according to your reference. God did give His spirit when he breathed into Adam the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul. If God's breath is required to make a man live, then that breath can return to God when man dies. But if man can die, he's not immortal. Paul emphasizes this here:
Romans 2:7 (KJV)
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Corinthians 15:53 (KJV)
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 (KJV)
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Timothy 6:16 (KJV)
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.

2 Timothy 1:10 (KJV)
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It was the understanding of a disciple of Jesus, a woman named "Syntyche," whom He told was correct (Poem of the Man-God: Vol. III). Jesus spoke similarly in Jn. 5:24 when He said, "...he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life."

Then you agree that something extra is needed to help man achieve immortality--he's not created that way, or, if he was, he stopped being immortal at some point.

 

[Derf]

So, the idea that true Life begins after death when one is born to the eternal life with God is in your view "new age," and thus false?

You are "truly" alive?

 

[Soul]

God didn't "give" man a soul, according to your reference. God did give His spirit when he breathed into Adam the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul.

God did give man a soul according to my references, as the words "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably in Gen. 2:7 and Eccles. 12:7.

If God's breath is required to make a man live, then that breath can return to God when man dies. But if man can die, he's not immortal.

God created man with a body and a soul. The body is mortal and the soul is immortal, and thus when the body dies the soul continues to live. Depending on how a soul is judged by God, it can undergo a spiritual "death," which is still existence, but "devoid of what is true Life and eternal joy, that is, devoid of the beatific vision of God and of His eternal possession in eternal light." (Jesus, Poem of the Man-God: Vol. III)

Then you agree that something extra is needed to help man achieve immortality--he's not created that way, or, if he was, he stopped being immortal at some point.

See above.

 

[Derf]

God did give man a soul according to my references, as the words "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably in Gen. 2:7 and Eccles. 12:7.

So you say. Yet "spirit" and "soul" are both used in Genesis 2:7. "נְשָׁמָה" (breath) is sometimes translated "spirit".

God created man with a body and a soul. The body is mortal and the soul is immortal, and thus when the body dies the soul continues to live. However, depending on how the soul is judged by God, it can undergo a spiritual "death," which is still existence, but "devoid of what is true Life and eternal joy, that is, devoid of the beatific vision of God and of His eternal possession in eternal light." (Jesus, Poem of the Man-God: Vol. III)

And I should trust that reference? Why?

 

[Soul]

So you say. Yet "spirit" and "soul" are both used in Genesis 2:7...

Hence why I said, "...the words "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably in Gen. 2:7."

And I should trust that reference? Why?

I didn't say you should do anything. I merely presented what I know to be truth.

 

[Derf]

Hence why I said, "...the words "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably in Gen. 2:7."

Not interchangeably. God's spirit/breath made the dust come to life. Man's soul didn't exist prior to God's breathing, but God's breath surely did.

I didn't say you should do anything. I merely presented what I know to be truth.

So as long as you "know" something, the rest of us can just take your word for it? I guess we will see the resolution of every disagreement in this entire forum now. Good thing you finally found us.

 

[Soul]

Not interchangeably. God's spirit/breath made the dust come to life. Man's soul didn't exist prior to God's breathing, but God's breath surely did.

You assume my use of the word "immortal," as when I say, "the soul is immortal," to also mean "eternal." God creates a soul, and thus it has a beginning, so it's not eternal like Him Who has neither a beginning nor an end.

So as long as you "know" something, the rest of us can just take your word for it?

What I said goes against that interpretation.

 

[Idolater]

You assume my use of the word "immortal," as when I say, "the soul is immortal," to also mean "eternal." God creates a soul, and thus it has a beginning, so it's not eternal like Him Who has neither a beginning nor an end.

Correct.

What I said goes against that interpretation.

What is the beatific vision of God?

 

[Soul]

What is the beatific vision of God?

BEATIFIC VISION

The intuitive knowledge of God which produces heavenly beatitude. As defined by the Church, the souls of the just "see the divine essence by an intuitive vision and face to face, so that the divine essence is known immediately, showing itself plainly, clearly and openly, and not immediately through any creature" (Denzinger 1000-2). Moreover, the souls of the saints "clearly behold God, one and triune, as He is" (Denzinger 1304-6). It is called vision in the mind by analogy with bodily sight, which is the most comprehensive of human sense faculties; it is called beatific because it produces happiness in the will and the whole being. As a result of this immediate vision of God, the blessed share in the divine happiness, where the beatitude of the Trinity is (humanly speaking) the consequence of God's perfect knowledge of his infinite goodness. The beatific vision is also enjoyed by the angels, and was possessed by Christ in his human nature even while he was in his mortal life on earth. (Etym. Latin beatificus, beatific, blissful, imparting great happiness or blessedness; from beatus, happy.)

 

[Right Divider]

So, the idea that true Life begins after death when one is born to the eternal life with God is in your view "new age," and thus false?

Without scriptural support... Yes.

 

[Soul]

Without scriptural support... Yes.

Refer back to the bottom section of post #562.

 

[Right Divider]

Refer back to the bottom section of post #562.

That scripture clearly does NOT say that eternal life begins at death.

John 5:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Present tense "HATH everlasting life"... not "will get everlasting life".

 

[Soul]

That scripture clearly does NOT say that eternal life begins at death.

John 5:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Present tense "HATH everlasting life"... not "will get everlasting life".

You requested scriptural support for the idea of true Life being generated by death. I cited Jn. 5:24 because Jesus spoke of death unto life, that life being eternal life with God in Heaven, which is true Life.

 

[Right Divider]

You requested scriptural support for the idea of true Life being generated by death. I cited Jn. 5:24 because Jesus spoke of death unto life, that life being eternal life with God in Heaven, which is true Life.

Jesus spoke of eternal life IN THE PRESENT TENSE ... not in some future tense.

 

[Soul]

Jesus spoke of eternal life IN THE PRESENT TENSE ... not in some future tense.

Whether speaking in present or future tense, Jn. 5:24 doesn't not support the idea in question, for reasons explained.

 

[Right Divider]

Whether speaking in present or future tense, Jn. 5:24 doesn't not support the idea in question, for reasons explained.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That is an assertion without evidence. Explain how to manipulate people by only telling them the truth.

Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. - John 8:48-59 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John8:48-59&version=NKJV

This being part of His greater plan to anger them to the point of crucifying Him...