ECT John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God

[andyc]

What makes people sinners?

Why are people homosexuals?
Why are people idolaters?

Because they are sinners?
Because they're born in sin?

No

It's because they don't know the Lord.
Notice Jesus didn't say, "it is eternal life for those who stop sinning". Or even, "it is eternal life if you repent, stop sinning, and believe in God"?
There people who are quite moral, who have repented and believe in God, but they don't know the Lord.

I know this is very simple and obvious to most, but after reading some of the threads on this website, some people haven't seemed to grasp this. They seem to be very critical of people advocating a sinful life, but who obviously don't know the Lord. How can people be criticised for not knowing the Lord, if that is the reason why they do what they do?

Let me just use a quick example from Paul to get the point across.......

While in Athens Paul was looking at the idols and objects of worship, and then he stood among them and said, "I see that you are very religious". And so in reality, Paul saw that they were all a bunch of idolaters, but he isn't critical of them, because they don't know the Lord. This is why he immediately goes on to introduce them all to the unknown God. Once they know him, they would no longer have use for their idols. And there is example after example. The woman at the well, Paul's own conversion, the Ethiopian eunuch etc

We live in a world of religious people, and their gods are scientists, liberal authors etc. They come across as arrogant in their atheism, or in their support of liberal ideologies etc, but the simple fact is they don't know the Lord.

Let's not beat them over the head because of who they are.

 

[Danoh]

What makes people sinners?

Why are people homosexuals?
Why are people idolaters?

Because they are sinners?
Because they're born in sin?

No

It's because they don't know the Lord.
Notice Jesus didn't say, "it is eternal life for those who stop sinning". Or even, "it is eternal life if you repent, stop sinning, and believe in God"?
There people who are quite moral, who have repented and believe in God, but they don't know the Lord.

I know this is very simple and obvious to most, but after reading some of the threads on this website, some people haven't seemed to grasp this. They seem to be very critical of people advocating a sinful life, but who obviously don't know the Lord. How can people be criticised for not knowing the Lord, if that is the reason why they do what they do?

Let me just use a quick example from Paul to get the point across.......

While in Athens Paul was looking at the idols and objects of worship, and then he stood among them and said, "I see that you are very religious". And so in reality, Paul saw that they were all a bunch of idolaters, but he isn't critical of them, because they don't know the Lord. This is why he immediately goes on to introduce them all to the unknown God. Once they know him, they would no longer have use for their idols. And there is example after example. The woman at the well, Paul's own conversion, the Ethiopian eunuch etc

We live in a world of religious people, and their gods are scientists, liberal authors etc. They come across as arrogant in their atheism, or in their support of liberal ideologies etc, but the simple fact is they don't know the Lord.

Let's not beat them over the head because of who they are.

True story...

Some years ago, while on a stop-over flight on their way home to Las Vegas, a group of dealers working the gambling tables in Vegas were approached by someone during that stop-over, who unknowingly led to them to the Lord.

Sometime after they parted company with that man, and time went on, they each trusted the Lord, the result of that man's various run-ins and dealings with them.

He'd dealt with them before; had ever been graceful towards them, despite their obvious strong differences in viewpoint, and as a result, had left himself "a door of faith" open with them, towards what turned out a series of ambassador opportunities for him with them, each time they ran into each other.

Life went on.

After some point, said dealers all began voicing on their own a same concern to one another - what to do about the fact that their GROWING conviction in the Lord (again, a conviction that had been GROWING in them ever since that individual had unknowingly led them to the Lord - he had also encouraged them to at least invest SOME time in the Word).

Said GROWING conviction was now a great contrast between their faith, and what they did for a living.

We're talking very simple, no nonsense, basically down to earth, rough around the edges, street savy, working class types.

The type who trust no one and take no prisoners - often some of those most difficult people to reason with.

Anyway, their crisis was now a very real one for them; regardless of which way they decided on.

Problem was, they'd been a little bit too "no nonsense" and as a result had no way of getting in contact with "that preacher."

One day, they run into another of "that preacher's kind..." on some other stop-over flight somewhere.

They relate all the above to her; it turns out she knows who they are talking about; she works at that airport, and so they all end up walking over to her desk phone with her to give the man a surprise phone call.

After all that joy back and forth; the women requests they relate their predicament to the man.

The man replies that their GROWING conviction is all they need focus on, at which point, the woman "clearly on the same page with that man" pulls out her Bible, and quotes all the following to these basically still spanking brand new "Grace Believers."

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

"You see all that?" she asks - "that's you!"

"And you have a wonderful problem on your hands - whether you keep those jobs or move on; either will result in an opportunity to reach those around you with the testimony of your obviously new life in Christ!"

And so, there they were, having "a Grace Conference" right there in that airport.

Rejoicing in the Lord, asking all their many questions, and growing and learning, and rejoicing some more, and coming to an even greater understanding of who God had made them in His Son from the moment they had believed.

All due to the simple fact of...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because
when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

All because a total stranger had CONSCIOUSLY DECIDED TO COMMIT TO ACTUALLY walking towards them in the GRACE of "the gospel of the grace OF GOD" he had ever been going on about, at each his encounter with them, no matter how they had treated him.

I've never forgotten that wondrous account of those simple, grace believing "Vegas dealers," and those two grace practicing ambassadors for Christ.

God...is indeed...good.

Rom. 5:8

 

[DAN P]

What makes people sinners?

Why are people homosexuals?
Why are people idolaters?

Because they are sinners?
Because they're born in sin?

No

It's because they don't know the Lord.
Notice Jesus didn't say, "it is eternal life for those who stop sinning". Or even, "it is eternal life if you repent, stop sinning, and believe in God"?
There people who are quite moral, who have repented and believe in God, but they don't know the Lord.

I know this is very simple and obvious to most, but after reading some of the threads on this website, some people haven't seemed to grasp this. They seem to be very critical of people advocating a sinful life, but who obviously don't know the Lord. How can people be criticised for not knowing the Lord, if that is the reason why they do what they do?

Let me just use a quick example from Paul to get the point across.......

While in Athens Paul was looking at the idols and objects of worship, and then he stood among them and said, "I see that you are very religious". And so in reality, Paul saw that they were all a bunch of idolaters, but he isn't critical of them, because they don't know the Lord. This is why he immediately goes on to introduce them all to the unknown God. Once they know him, they would no longer have use for their idols. And there is example after example. The woman at the well, Paul's own conversion, the Ethiopian eunuch etc

We live in a world of religious people, and their gods are scientists, liberal authors etc. They come across as arrogant in their atheism, or in their support of liberal ideologies etc, but the simple fact is they don't know the Lord.

Let's not beat them over the head because of who they are.

Hi and the Jews beat themselves over the head and not us , because of their unbelief as written in 2 Cor 3:13-15 as God LAID A VAIL on their hearts and Isa 6 and Luke 13:6-9 !!

dan p

 

[andyc]

True story...

Some years ago, while on a stop-over flight on their way home to Las Vegas, a group of dealers working the gambling tables in Vegas were approached by someone during that stop-over, who unknowingly led to them to the Lord.

Sometime after they parted company with that man, and time went on, they each trusted the Lord, the result of that man's various run-ins and dealings with them.

He'd dealt with them before; had ever been graceful towards them, despite their obvious strong differences in viewpoint, and as a result, had left himself "a door of faith" open with them, towards what turned out a series of ambassador opportunities for him with them, each time they ran into each other.

Life went on.

After some point, said dealers all began voicing on their own a same concern to one another - what to do about the fact that their GROWING conviction in the Lord (again, a conviction that had been GROWING in them ever since that individual had unknowingly led them to the Lord - he had also encouraged them to at least invest SOME time in the Word).

Said GROWING conviction was now a great contrast between their faith, and what they did for a living.

We're talking very simple, no nonsense, basically down to earth, rough around the edges, street savy, working class types.

The type who trust no one and take no prisoners - often some of those most difficult people to reason with.

Anyway, their crisis was now a very real one for them; regardless of which way they decided on.

Problem was, they'd been a little bit too "no nonsense" and as a result had no way of getting in contact with "that preacher."

One day, they run into another of "that preacher's kind..." on some other stop-over flight somewhere.

They relate all the above to her; it turns out she knows who they are talking about; she works at that airport, and so they all end up walking over to her desk phone with her to give the man a surprise phone call.

After all that joy back and forth; the women requests they relate their predicament to the man.

The man replies that their GROWING conviction is all they need focus on, at which point, the woman "clearly on the same page with that man" pulls out her Bible, and quotes all the following to these basically still spanking brand new "Grace Believers."

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

"You see all that?" she asks - "that's you!"

"And you have a wonderful problem on your hands - whether you keep those jobs or move on; either will result in an opportunity to reach those around you with the testimony of your obviously new life in Christ!"

And so, there they were, having "a Grace Conference" right there in that airport.

Rejoicing in the Lord, asking all their many questions, and growing and learning, and rejoicing some more, and coming to an even greater understanding of who God had made them in His Son from the moment they had believed.

All due to the simple fact of...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because
when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

All because a total stranger had CONSCIOUSLY DECIDED TO COMMIT TO ACTUALLY walking towards them in the GRACE of "the gospel of the grace OF GOD" he had ever been going on about, at each his encounter with them, no matter how they had treated him.

I've never forgotten that wondrous account of those simple, grace believing "Vegas dealers," and those two grace practicing ambassadors for Christ.

God...is indeed...good.

Rom. 5:8

The difference with you compared to the other mads, is that there's obvious passion in what you say. Or as we pentes would say, "fire in the belly". When you say what you have to say, it comes from within, which is different from the norm. Most mads get their point across like they're describing how to do an oil change. It's so robotic and lifeless, as though what they're describing hasn't actually been experienced. Like a man explaining what it feels like to give birth.

 

[Danoh]

The difference with you compared to the other mads, is that there's obvious passion in what you say. Or as we pentes would say, "fire in the belly". When you say what you have to say, it comes from within, which is different from the norm. Most mads get their point across like they're describing how to do an oil change. It's so robotic and lifeless, as though what they're describing hasn't actually been experienced. Like a man explaining what it feels like to give birth.

Uh, oh - now you've gone and struck a wrong nerve in me :chuckle:

Much as I appreciate your words there, I'll have to beg to differ.

For I have always found that each their expression of their passion for the Lord and His Word is differently expressed by each of them.

I tend to relate various personal accounts.

Doesn't mean they each do not have their own.

In fact, here is one little known of other accounts about them, around here.

When I first joined TOL, they and Jerry were all at war with one another for how really hard he was being with them, for not holding to his views.

And I was being really hard on Jerry for that.

Then, Jerry; who it turned out had been undergoing very seriously severe health issues, simply disappeared from posting without a word.

No one heard from him, and no one knew what had become of him.

Zip, nada.

Various of us began inquiring here and there as best we could as to what had become of him - which is how we eventually found out (in bits and pieces here and there) that he had been facing some serious life and death issues all that time he'd been away.

At which point various of the MADs on here reached out to him.

Lack of passion?

You just don't know MY MADs.

That's right MY MADs.

I give SOME them one heck of a hard time, for what I believe might be better conduct on their part towards others.

But that is me - one of them.

Not for a minute do I not believe they are these cold, heartless Bible thumpers.

I give them a hard time for the very reason that I know, not hope, not wonder, but know - they each love the Lord - as often seeming as any of us can at times appear to be otherwise.

Might as well conclude Peter was anything but passionate for the Lord for his having been so quick to pull out his sword to do what he had believed needed doing, that night that Judas betrayed Him to His enemies.

I look at it this way - one time, while arguing with a favorite, favorite cousin of mine, I found myself thinking "Urgh! I'm so livid I could bust! And I so want to ring your neck! And I love you so!"

At which point I just bust out laughing all over the place; I found that both so moving, and also so absolutely hilarious.

Love her to pieces to this very day.

Well, Andyc, that is how it sometimes is within the Body also; or at least can be - In HIM.

Acts 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. 15:38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; 15:40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

While, much later we read...

2 Timothy 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.

Eph. 4:16 - because Romans 5:8.

 

[oatmeal]

What makes people sinners?
Why are people homosexuals?
Why are people idolaters?

Because they are sinners?
Because they're born in sin?

No

It's because they don't know the Lord.
Notice Jesus didn't say, "it is eternal life for those who stop sinning". Or even, "it is eternal life if you repent, stop sinning, and believe in God"?
There people who are quite moral, who have repented and believe in God, but they don't know the Lord.

I know this is very simple and obvious to most, but after reading some of the threads on this website, some people haven't seemed to grasp this. They seem to be very critical of people advocating a sinful life, but who obviously don't know the Lord. How can people be criticised for not knowing the Lord, if that is the reason why they do what they do?

Let me just use a quick example from Paul to get the point across.......

While in Athens Paul was looking at the idols and objects of worship, and then he stood among them and said, "I see that you are very religious". And so in reality, Paul saw that they were all a bunch of idolaters, but he isn't critical of them, because they don't know the Lord. This is why he immediately goes on to introduce them all to the unknown God. Once they know him, they would no longer have use for their idols. And there is example after example. The woman at the well, Paul's own conversion, the Ethiopian eunuch etc

We live in a world of religious people, and their gods are scientists, liberal authors etc. They come across as arrogant in their atheism, or in their support of liberal ideologies etc, but the simple fact is they don't know the Lord.

Let's not beat them over the head because of who they are.

Experiencing truth, not condemnation, sets people free

 

[Tigger 2]

John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God

This is the title of this discussion and the OP.

So why has no one actually discussed it?

It clearly says that the Father is the only true God and Jesus is someone else whom He has sent to earth.

And it says that knowing them both is eternal life. So if we know Jesus as the Father or as God, then do we really 'know the only true God' and the one He has sent? And how does our knowledge of God affect our "eternal life?"