ECT Monergist or Synergist

[MennoSota]

Monergism states that the regeneration of an individual is the work of God through the Holy Spirit alone,
as opposed to Synergism, which, in its simplest form, argues that the human will cooperates with God's grace in order to be regenerated.

What view do you hold and why?
For more information:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/monergism-vs-synergism.html

 

[MennoSota]

Faither, this is a thread for Christians only. If you're not a monergist or a synergist, don't post.

 

[George Affleck]

Monergism states that the regeneration of an individual is the work of God through the Holy Spirit alone,
as opposed to Synergism, which, in its simplest form, argues that the human will cooperates with God's grace in order to be regenerated.

What view do you hold and why?
For more information:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/monergism-vs-synergism.html

The process of regeneration is monergistic. The process of sanctification is synergistic.

Those who are dead need new life, not first aid. Eph 2:1KJV Once new life is given, both the life and the Giver of life work together.

I think the reason some Christians are synergistic with regard to salvific regeneration is because they misinterpret their first experience of yielding with a salvation event. The Bible tells us that we are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4KJV Yielding, then, is not just a one time event but the first part of a process of sanctification.

 

[MennoSota]

The process of regeneration is monergistic. The process of sanctification is synergistic.

Those who are dead need new life, not first aid. Eph 2:1KJV Once new life is given, both the life and the Giver of life work together.

I think the reason some Christians are synergistic with regard to salvific regeneration is because they misinterpret their first experience of yielding with a salvation event. The Bible tells us that we are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4KJV Yielding, then, is not just a one time event but the first part of a process of sanctification.

Is that process of sanctification an effort on our part?

 

[George Affleck]

Is that process of sanctification an effort on our part?

It is an effort because we are still sinners. It is a joy because we know that it is not in vain.

 

[MennoSota]

It is an effort because we are still sinners. It is a joy because we know that it is not in vain.

Sure we are sinners. That doesn't answer how sanctification is synergistic, however.

 

[George Affleck]

Sure we are sinners. That doesn't answer how sanctification is synergistic, however.

I answered this already by giving my opinion based on experience. Once new life is given, both the life and the Giver of life work together.

 

[MennoSota]

I answered this already by giving my opinion based on experience. Once new life is given, both the life and the Giver of life work together.

So, you're a synergist.

 

[George Affleck]

So, you're a synergist.

Are you running on all cylinders today?

Please return to post 5 and read carefully.
It is quite clear.

 

[MennoSota]

Are you running on all cylinders today?

Please return to post 5 and read carefully.
It is quite clear.

God is responsible for some stuff, but we are responsible for some stuff as well. That seems like synergist.

 

[George Affleck]

God is responsible for some stuff, but we are responsible for some stuff as well. That seems like synergist.

Now I need to request that you do not put words in my mouth!
I did not use the phrase "responsible for". We are talking about grace - not responsibility. Jhn 1:17KJV

Your original question had to do with regeneration. With regard to that, I am monergist because I believe it is a work of God only. You asked so I told you.

I added the part about sanctification as it may be of interest. This is experiential or progressive sanctification by the way, not positional sanctification which is a different thing.
With respect to this process begun after regeneration; 2 Peter 3:18KJV, Philippians 1:6KJV, John 17:17KJV

 

[MennoSota]

Now I need to request that you do not put words in my mouth!
I did not use the phrase "responsible for". We are talking about grace - not responsibility. Jhn 1:17KJV

Your original question had to do with regeneration. With regard to that, I am monergist because I believe it is a work of God only. You asked so I told you.

I added the part about sanctification as it may be of interest. This is experiential or progressive sanctification by the way, not positional sanctification which is a different thing.
With respect to this process begun after regeneration; 2 Peter 3:18KJV, Philippians 1:6KJV, John 17:17KJV

So...a monergist?

 

[MennoSota]

George, I am not sure how you mix monergism with synergism. I read how you attempt to have salvation be all God's work (grace), but then you attempt to juxtapose God and man in the process of sanctification, which makes you a synergist in your daily life.
I don't see how God dances from Sovereignly acting on your behalf in salvation, but then acts cooperatively in sanctification so that your will can thwart God's will.
It seems to me that God is always acting via sovereign grace both in salvation and sanctification. God will sanctify us as He wills apart from our effort. The process of sanctification is all by God's sovereign will.

 

[Nang]

George, I am not sure how you mix monergism with synergism. I read how you attempt to have salvation be all God's work (grace), but then you attempt to juxtapose God and man in the process of sanctification, which makes you a synergist in your daily life.
I don't see how God dances from Sovereignly acting on your behalf in salvation, but then acts cooperatively in sanctification so that your will can thwart God's will.
It seems to me that God is always acting via sovereign grace both in salvation and sanctification. God will sanctify us as He wills apart from our effort. The process of sanctification is all by God's sovereign will.

Agreed.

Both the justification and the sanctification of sinners, is attributed solely to God and His works of grace, alone.

Any Christian display of obedience is the resultant fruit of God's salvation; never the means.

 

[George Affleck]

George, I am not sure how you mix monergism with synergism. I read how you attempt to have salvation be all God's work (grace), but then you attempt to juxtapose God and man in the process of sanctification, which makes you a synergist in your daily life.
I don't see how God dances from Sovereignly acting on your behalf in salvation, but then acts cooperatively in sanctification so that your will can thwart God's will.
It seems to me that God is always acting via sovereign grace both in salvation and sanctification. God will sanctify us as He wills apart from our effort. The process of sanctification is all by God's sovereign will.

OK,
I acknowledge that you don't understand it. For me it is plain.
I will do my best to explain it as I understand it.

I will assume you are clear that, apart from God's sovereign grace, we are spiritually dead in sin and incapable of self-redemption or even participating in it. He brings us back from that death by resurrecting us to new life.

That new life is now capable of many things that it could not do before. It can talk to God, read and understand His Word, praise, sing, worship, grow in grace, exhibit agape love - and many more. Col 3:1KJV But we can also refrain from these things to our detriment. This sounds remarkably like a new found free will. In fact, it is.

Adam had free will and relinquished it; for himself and all his progeny. All future humanity became bond-servants of Satan by birth through Adam and Satan could do with them whatever He wanted. God is impeccably just. At the bar of universal justice, Satan could never be convicted of a crime against his own property.

The next person to have free will in history was Jesus because He was not legally a bond-servant. He was not legally owned by Satan because He did not have a human father to trace legal ownership through. Servitude is not traced through the mother. When Satan and his followers killed Jesus, for the first time he became technically guilty of murdering a free man. He is now held on death row awaiting destruction.

When we are born again by God's Spirit, we partake of Christ's perfection. We stand in Him when we are raised to newness of life. This means we are now free to do all of the things I mentioned above. Rom 6:4KJV We could not do them before because we were unable - our will was not free. Christ's will is free and because of our standing in Him, so is ours. 2Co 5:17KJV

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

If the word synergy bothers one, especially given Arminian notions of salvation, try the word participation versus synergistic as relates to sanctification:

Man's conversion to God consists in a change of the corrupt mind and will into that which is good, produced by the Holy Ghost through preaching of the law and the gospel, which is followed by a sincere desire to produce the fruits of repentance, and a conformity of the life to all the commands of God.
Ursinius, Commentary on the Heidelberg Confession, pg. 469​

We will want to do what we should be doing, because God has first worked within us.

AMR

 

[George Affleck]

God has always delighted to use His people in accomplishing His purposes.

He didn't have to make Noah build that boat. He could have given one to him.
The walls of Jericho could have just fallen down without all that tramping around and shouting.
He could have just left copies of instructions lying around for people to find instead of inspiring the authors of the Bible.

But He delights in giving us, by grace, through faith, life giving abilities to participate in His purposes. In sin we were puppets of Satan. In Christ we have life unto God.

 

[MennoSota]

OK,
I acknowledge that you don't understand it. For me it is plain.
I will do my best to explain it as I understand it.

I will assume you are clear that, apart from God's sovereign grace, we are spiritually dead in sin and incapable of self-redemption or even participating in it. He brings us back from that death by resurrecting us to new life.

That new life is now capable of many things that it could not do before. It can talk to God, read and understand His Word, praise, sing, worship, grow in grace, exhibit agape love - and many more. Col 3:1KJV But we can also refrain from these things to our detriment. This sounds remarkably like a new found free will. In fact, it is.

Adam had free will and relinquished it; for himself and all his progeny. All future humanity became bond-servants of Satan by birth through Adam and Satan could do with them whatever He wanted. God is impeccably just. At the bar of universal justice, Satan could never be convicted of a crime against his own property.

The next person to have free will in history was Jesus because He was not legally a bond-servant. He was not legally owned by Satan because He did not have a human father to trace legal ownership through. Servitude is not traced through the mother. When Satan and his followers killed Jesus, for the first time he became technically guilty of murdering a free man. He is now held on death row awaiting destruction.

When we are born again by God's Spirit, we partake of Christ's perfection. We stand in Him when we are raised to newness of life. This means we are now free to do all of the things I mentioned above. Rom 6:4KJV We could not do them before because we were unable - our will was not free. Christ's will is free and because of our standing in Him, so is ours. 2Co 5:17KJV

This sounds like an Arminian view, which is syncretist. You deny Pelagianism, which is great, but you espouse a traditional Arminian, syncretist, perspective of your participation with God.
I believe God is actively doing the guiding work in us both when we were dead in our trespasses and sins as well as when we are made alive in Christ. God's sovereign work is to act as a "potter" who makes the pot according to his will. (Romans 9)

 

[George Affleck]

This sounds like an Arminian view, which is syncretist. You deny Pelagianism, which is great, but you espouse a traditional Arminian, syncretist, perspective of your participation with God.
I believe God is actively doing the guiding work in us both when we were dead in our trespasses and sins as well as when we are made alive in Christ. God's sovereign work is to act as a "potter" who makes the pot according to his will. (Romans 9)

There are certainly differing views within Calvinist circles. The general Reformed view is that justification is a one time, God produced, event based solely on grace by the free gift of faith in Christ's blood where one goes from death to life. But sanctification is a secret process, over time, of the Spirit within us; yet it never occurs apart from human effort. Human effort is absent in justification, but not in sanctification.

A key word would be 'motivation'. It is impossible for a dead man to be motivated. Once enlivened to God, however, motivation according to gratitude and enlightenment is inevitable. This is why Calvin spent so much time establishing total depravity and inability. For him, justification and sanctification are not parallel. The Christian life is a consequence of salvation. (Luther)

The following motivational verses (and hundreds of others) would be be meaningless if we did not actively participate in the Christian life:

Phil 2:12KJV, Phil 3:13-14KJV, Rom 2:7KJV, 1Co 15:58KJV, Heb 4:11KJV, 2Pe 1:5-8KJV

As Christians we can now do works that are pleasing to God because the sin barrier has been removed by Him. The idea that we do not participate in the Christian life according to our being enabled is a tenet of hyper-Calvinism. That is not to say that the glory should not go to God, for it is He who does the enabling and we who are given the gift of participating in glorifying Him.

This is, after all, what prayer is. God will do what He will do; but He invites us who are now able, to participate in His good pleasure.

 

[MennoSota]

There are certainly differing views within Calvinist circles. The general Reformed view is that justification is a one time, God produced, event based solely on grace by the free gift of faith in Christ's blood where one goes from death to life. But sanctification is a secret process, over time, of the Spirit within us; yet it never occurs apart from human effort. Human effort is absent in justification, but not in sanctification.

A key word would be 'motivation'. It is impossible for a dead man to be motivated. Once enlivened to God, however, motivation according to gratitude and enlightenment is inevitable. This is why Calvin spent so much time establishing total depravity and inability. For him, justification and sanctification are not parallel. The Christian life is a consequence of salvation. (Luther)

The following motivational verses (and hundreds of others) would be be meaningless if we did not actively participate in the Christian life:

Phil 2:12KJV, Phil 3:13-14KJV, Rom 2:7KJV, 1Co 15:58KJV, Heb 4:11KJV, 2Pe 1:5-8KJV

As Christians we can now do works that are pleasing to God because the sin barrier has been removed by Him. The idea that we do not participate in the Christian life according to our being enabled is a tenet of hyper-Calvinism. That is not to say that the glory should not go to God, for it is He who does the enabling and we who are given the gift of participating in glorifying Him.

This is, after all, what prayer is. God will do what He will do; but He invites us who are now able, to participate in His good pleasure.

We are not differing on action. We are differing in who is the cause of that action.
You are arguing that you and God consult together in causing sanctification. I am arguing that just as God caused us to be raised from death unto life, God also caused us to be justified and is causing us to be sanctified (set apart) for His glory. We cannot set ourselves apart by our own efforts. We don't cause our sanctification. God orchestrates our lives and causes us to be made, more and more, in the likeness of Jesus. Malachi 3 presents this as Jesus being the silversmith who refines us. The silver does not refine itself. It is only refined by the efforts of the silversmith in heating the silver and skimming off the impurity until the silversmith can see his reflection in the purified silver.
Malachi 3:2-3
[2]“But who will be able to endure it when he comes? Who will be able to stand and face him when he appears? For he will be like a blazing fire that refines metal, or like a strong soap that bleaches clothes.
[3]He will sit like a refiner of silver, burning away the dross. He will purify the Levites, refining them like gold and silver, so that they may once again offer acceptable sacrifices to the lord.