turbosixx
New member
I hate to think I'm wasting your time. If I am, my apologies.
No. I believe we have to take all of scripture and understand it in a way that is harmonizes.
Purpose of Water Baptism
- Thread starter turbosixx
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I hate to think I'm wasting your time. If I am, my apologies.
No. I believe we have to take all of scripture and understand it in a way that is harmonizes.
turbosixx
New member
He was not the Christ but was John the Baptist Elijah?
turbosixx
New member
I'm seriously interested that's why I want to hear what others have to say.
I don't see how it was right out of Moses. Do you believe he was baptizing according to the old law? I know of no passage where the people were washing. Priest yes, people no.
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Exodus 19
6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.
John was preparing the way for the messiah, the anointed one of God. Israel was to be a nation of priests, to bring people to God.
turbosixx
New member
I agree. The people being the priest was something new and not under the law of Moses.
Mk. 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in the Prophets:
“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.’”
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.Who will prepare Your way before You.”3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.’”
How did the gospel begin? Water baptism.
John the Baptist was Elijah.
musterion
Well-known member
You either can't read or are playing dumb. Nick showed you your error plain as day. You can NOT misunderstand what he posted.
The Pharisees knew exactly what John was doing. The people knew, too. John was bypassing the faithless leaders (actually God was bypassing them) and they didn't like it. But they knew what John meant by it. It was all Law ritual from as far back as Moses. There was nothing new about it, as Nick showed you.
That's also why there is no such biblical thing as "Christian water baptism" the way all denominations have enforced it.
turbosixx
New member
I agree he was bypassing them and justly so. He was preparing the way for Jesus.
Washing for the atonement of sin for non-priest was new. I admit I could be wrong. I'm not aware of it being practiced before John. Could you please point me to a passage?
The good news of the Kingdom, not the good news of the Body of Christ.
I already did. And this is why I do not take TOL serious. I just showed you. They are to be a nation of priests.
oatmeal
Well-known member
How is it that you compare what Jesus Christ and John the Baptist foretold of to "shacking up"?
Maybe you could read Acts 2:1-4 and tell me what "ceremony" you read of?
Anyone who does Romans 10:9 receives the same gift of holy spirit from the Holy Spirit that the apostles and the about 3000 did on the day of Pentecost.
do you read of any ceremony in Acts 2? or Acts 10? or Acts 19?
What ceremony would you like? Do you think adding to God's word will somehow save you more? or make it more holy?
For that matter, do you read of a ceremony for Adam and Eve?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well after the original outpouring of the gift on the day of Pentecost is no longer referred to as baptism of the Holy Spirit, (except in retrospect) but rather baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, Acts 2:38
As you might imagine and is still evident today, not everyone kept pace with the doctrinal growth in the book of Acts or with the Apostles, especially and later, the apostle Paul.
Many of the believers, ie, those of the circumcision, still held fast to the law of Moses and its ceremonies.
Just as believers have done and continue to do, they hold onto obsolete traditions needlessly.
These same believers ended up persecuting the apostle Paul because Paul taught that we were no longer under the law for righteousness as we see in Romans... especially Galatians 2:21 righteousness does not come by the law, if it does then Christ is dead in vain
These believers sought self righteousness instead of the righteousness which is from God by believing.
We read in Philippians 3 that if anyone could have had a claim to fame by following the law, Paul did, but he rejected that for he understood and believed what he wrote in Philippians 3:9
We are made the righteousness of God in him II Corinthians 5:21, not by the law including John's baptism.
We are righteousness by the works of Jesus Christ.
musterion
Well-known member
You are wrong.
The OT says the entire nation was to be sent out as God's priests to the world. That was what was supposed to happen when Messiah came. That's why John came baptizing EVERYBODY...
That's why the Pharisees asked,
Again...why do you think they didn't ask him WHAT he was doing baptizing pretty much every Jew in the area? Because they knew exactly what he was doing. It's right out of Moses.
You are not this obtuse. Just accept why the Word says water baptism existed...for Israel.
Zeke
Well-known member
Its milk doctrine for those who can't eat meat .
turbosixx
New member
That verse doesn't say the beginning of the gospel of the kingdom.
Mk. 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Jesus is the head of the body.
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turbosixx
New member
You showed me a passage from the OT where the priest washed, not the people. In the OT, I know of no passage where the people washed for sins. Not until John.
Are to be, when did that happen the way you see it?
turbosixx
New member
So these people were being baptized as priest? That isn't new? Only Levites could be priest.
Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Point out a passage where non-priest washed for sins and I will better understand your point of view. Under the law of Moses only priest could approach God to atone for sin after washing and with the blood of animals.
I would but you're leaving out some VERY important details that I can't ignore unless you can give me scripture to back up what you're saying.
I do appreciate your time discussing this with me.
musterion
Well-known member
If all Israel had bowed before their Messiah, they all would have bean Spirit-filled and sent out to the Gentile world. Could've happened at Pentecost, but the nation as a whole had to repent. It didn't.
So like the sign gifts, water rituals and national distinctions gradually gave way to an unprecedented level of grace with no distinctions between any men, for all have sinned.
Water rituals are now completely meaningless at best...part of false gospels at worst.
So like the sign gifts, water rituals and national distinctions gradually gave way to an unprecedented level of grace with no distinctions between any men, for all have sinned.
Water rituals are now completely meaningless at best...part of false gospels at worst.
turbosixx
New member
I would suggest that baptism of the Holy Spirit only happened one other time. If you notice the details of the Acts 1 Holy Spirit baptism they are (1) from God directly and (2) evident by speaking in tongues. The only other time that happened was with Cornelius. It was directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues and look what Peter says when he recounts the event.
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Now the bible clearly tells us these two are baptism with the Holy Spirit. In between these two, Peter had baptized and given the Holy Spirit to people but we are never told it's Holy Spirit baptism and they do not look like the ones we are told are Holy Spirit baptism.
I totally agree with all of that.
John was to prepare the way for Jesus and he was never given the Holy Spirit. If you will notice John did not baptize in the name of Jesus. I wasn't until after Jesus becomes the Christ and was given all authority that he commands baptism in his name.
Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Now water baptism has the power of Jesus' blood behind it. That's what makes it different than Johns and that is why it does so many things. Here is one example.
Acts 22:16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
Baptism in Jesus' name is how we call on his name and receive the Holy Spirit and his blood that forgives our sins.
Can you point me to a passage/s that tells us this?
turbosixx
New member
I'm curious why you believe the nation as a whole. Could you please point me to the passage that you get this from?
I agree that all of the OT "stuff" is done away and Jesus nailed all that to the cross. Now there is a new and living way.
Before he ascends he commands make disciples baptizing them in his name. In his name is different than John's baptism and is a very important detail. Paul baptized people again who had already been baptized but not in Jesus' name.
Those in Acts 19 were baptized with John's baptism but when Paul finds out they hadn't received the Holy Spirit he asks them "into what were you baptized". When he finds out it's John's, he baptizes them in the name of Jesus. Just as Jesus commanded.