Sequence of events in end time eschatology

Zadok899

Zadok899

New member
I've been spending some time trying to understand the timing/sequencing of sequences of the following three eschatological views. I wonder if anyone holding to one of the three views is able to easily see any flaws in the following? Thanks


Premillennialism (Historic)
The belief that Jesus’s returns prior to a literal millennial reign on earth:

• Jesus’ death and resurrection is Christ’s first coming.
• The second coming of Jesus is preceded by a period of intense tribulation, ending with
• a visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• Christians—living and dead—being caught up to Jesus,
• Satan is bound up, ushering in a
• a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth in an earthly city.
• The 1,000 years of peace is concluded with satan being released, enabling
• Satan and the unbelievers gathering for war against the city, in which Jesus is victorious,
• Resurrection of the remaining dead—all unbelievers, and Christians who died in the millennium,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the unbelievers, and
• the heavens and earth are recreated and made new.

Postmillennialism
The belief that Jesus’ return is after a figurative millennium—a golden age:

• Jesus’ death and resurrection is Christ’s first coming.
• Satan is bound up at some future time after this first coming, causing
• victorious growth of the gospel in the last days, ushering in a
• ‘golden age’ of the Church on earth where the majority of people are Christian, and where
• Christ is not physically present, being understood to be ruling from heaven.
• The ‘golden age’ concluding with the visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• one resurrection of all, both Christians and unbelievers,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the unbelievers, and
• the heavens and earth being recreated and made new.

Amillennialism
Amillennialism rejects of the idea of a literal 1,000 years, in favour of the idea that this number is symbolic of the age of the church. :

• The figurative millennium, the “Kingdom of God” was ushered in at Christ’s resurrection,
• This includes Satan being ‘bound’ up, and
• jesus being understood as ruling from heaven.
• The end of the millennium involves release of Satan, signs of the times, and the anti-Christ, and the almost destruction of the church.
• The millennium will conclude with the visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• one resurrection of all, both Christians and unbelievers,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the wicked, and
• the heavens and earth being recreated and made new.




 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Zadok899 said:
I've been spending some time trying to understand the timing/sequencing of sequences of the following three eschatological views. I wonder if anyone holding to one of the three views is able to easily see any flaws in the following? Thanks


Premillennialism (Historic)
The belief that Jesus’s returns prior to a literal millennial reign on earth:

• Jesus’ death and resurrection is Christ’s first coming.
• The second coming of Jesus is preceded by a period of intense tribulation, ending with
• a visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• Christians—living and dead—being caught up to Jesus,
• Satan is bound up, ushering in a
• a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth in an earthly city.
• The 1,000 years of peace is concluded with satan being released, enabling
• Satan and the unbelievers gathering for war against the city, in which Jesus is victorious,
• Resurrection of the remaining dead—all unbelievers, and Christians who died in the millennium,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the unbelievers, and
• the heavens and earth are recreated and made new.

Postmillennialism
The belief that Jesus’ return is after a figurative millennium—a golden age:

• Jesus’ death and resurrection is Christ’s first coming.
• Satan is bound up at some future time after this first coming, causing
• victorious growth of the gospel in the last days, ushering in a
• ‘golden age’ of the Church on earth where the majority of people are Christian, and where
• Christ is not physically present, being understood to be ruling from heaven.
• The ‘golden age’ concluding with the visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• one resurrection of all, both Christians and unbelievers,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the unbelievers, and
• the heavens and earth being recreated and made new.

Amillennialism
Amillennialism rejects of the idea of a literal 1,000 years, in favour of the idea that this number is symbolic of the age of the church. :

• The figurative millennium, the “Kingdom of God” was ushered in at Christ’s resurrection,
• This includes Satan being ‘bound’ up, and
• jesus being understood as ruling from heaven.
• The end of the millennium involves release of Satan, signs of the times, and the anti-Christ, and the almost destruction of the church.
• The millennium will conclude with the visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• one resurrection of all, both Christians and unbelievers,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the wicked, and
• the heavens and earth being recreated and made new.




Click to expand...

thanks for that post, i never knew what the 'millennial talk' was about. i thought people were talking about kids born around the year 2000, LOL. unfortunately i haven't studied those out in detail, but i will now. from what i see i think i'm Pre - :patrol:
 
Zadok899

Zadok899

New member
patrick jane said:
thanks for that post, i never knew what the 'millennial talk' was about. i thought people were talking about kids born around the year 2000, LOL. unfortunately i haven't studied those out in detail, but i will now. from what i see i think i'm Pre - :patrol:
Click to expand...

Premillennial is possibly the default for most people, on the basis that it is basically a summary of the sequence of events in Revelation 20. The other views are kind of adaptations to work around issues that arise by taking a literal view of Revelation 20.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Zadok899 said:
Premillennial is possibly the default for most people, on the basis that it is basically a summary of the sequence of events in Revelation 20. The other views are kind of adaptations to work around issues that arise by taking a literal view of Revelation 20.
Click to expand...

in the day and evening crowd, this thread should get more response, i'm packing it in for the night
 
intojoy

intojoy

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Zadok899 said:
Premillennial is possibly the default for most people, on the basis that it is basically a summary of the sequence of events in Revelation 20. The other views are kind of adaptations to work around issues that arise by taking a literal view of Revelation 20.
Click to expand...

A mill is the predominant view within christiandom
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
jamie said:
Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ?

...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (Revelation 20 :4 NKJV)​
Click to expand...

yes and I also believe they reigned with Christ

are you with Christ?
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
Zadok899 said:
I've been spending some time trying to understand the timing/sequencing of sequences of the following three eschatological views. I wonder if anyone holding to one of the three views is able to easily see any flaws in the following? Thanks


Premillennialism (Historic)
The belief that Jesus’s returns prior to a literal millennial reign on earth:

• Jesus’ death and resurrection is Christ’s first coming.
• The second coming of Jesus is preceded by a period of intense tribulation, ending with
• a visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
• Christians—living and dead—being caught up to Jesus,
• Satan is bound up, ushering in a
• a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth in an earthly city.
• The 1,000 years of peace is concluded with satan being released, enabling
• Satan and the unbelievers gathering for war against the city, in which Jesus is victorious,
• Resurrection of the remaining dead—all unbelievers, and Christians who died in the millennium,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the unbelievers, and
• the heavens and earth are recreated and made new.
Click to expand...



My reading of the Bible has led me to hold what you describe as a premil view but that same effort has led me to see several problems with your summation of this view. To begin with, only those who paid the ultimate price (that being their life) for their witness are to rule and reign with Christ during His millennial reign. Not “believers”. While we are on the subject of belief (or maybe better said faith) the reward for that expires at Christ's return as it requires no faith to believe in what is right in front of you. During the millennial reign of Christ those unresurrected at that point are judged by their deeds right along with the rest of those unresurrected at the time of the White Throne Judgment.
 
Zadok899

Zadok899

New member
intojoy said:
A mill is the predominant view within christiandom
Click to expand...

I've never seen statistics on percentages of who hold to what view, do you have any that support the idea that a-mil is the predominant view? I know within pentecostalism pre-mil is fairly well accepted, and they are no small percentage of the number of christians in some countries.

But back to my statement you are quoting, I don't believe it is disputed that pre-mil is the closest to the literal reading of Revelation, which is what I was trying to express.
 
Zadok899

Zadok899

New member
fzappa13 said:
My reading of the Bible has led me to hold what you describe as a premil view but that same effort has led me to see several problems with your summation of this view. To begin with, only those who paid the ultimate price (that being their life) for their witness are to rule and reign with Christ during His millennial reign. Not “believers”. While we are on the subject of belief (or maybe better said faith) the reward for that expires at Christ's return as it requires no faith to believe in what is right in front of you. During the millennial reign of Christ those unresurrected at that point are judged by their deeds right along with the rest of those unresurrected at the time of the White Throne Judgment.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your comments on the pre-mil section. I shall read more on these particular points you make and update the list appropriately. Thanks.
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
As an amillennial, I respectfully suggest the following additions/remarks (in blue) for your consideration.

Zadok899 said:
Amillennialism
Amillennialism rejects of the idea of a literal 1,000 years, in favour of the idea that this number is symbolic of the age of the church. :
I object to the use of the word "literal" on linguistic grounds. (Everyone knows this is one of my pet peeves! :rolleyes:) Many will argue that literal has come to mean "physical" but I insist that, especially in theology, it must retain its original meaning of "authentic" or "as literated". The reason for this is that many theologians who disagree with each other claim for themselves a literal interpretation. It is much clearer, in eschatology, to specify physical vs. figurative.
I prefer the words "physical" or "earthly" (as opposed to figurative or symbolic), but that's because I am really, really picky!

I would also change "the age of the church" to "the church era". ;)

• The figurative millennium, the “Kingdom of God” was ushered in at Christ’s resurrection,
Some say at Jesus birth, some the cross or resurrection, others 70 AD when the sacrifices stopped and the old dispensation died. I would perhaps say "...ushered in by Christ at His first advent" to cover my bases.

• This includes Satan being ‘bound’ up, and
I would say "bound (not "up" - rather chained/restricted) in respect to deceiving the nations only". This is in light of God being made accessible to anyone regardless of their national origin by the dissemination of the true Gospel. Prior to the first advent of Christ the truth was shut up to the Jews alone. Rev 20:2-3KJV

• jesus being understood as ruling from heaven.
As very God, and having defeated all opposition, Jesus is the complete and indisputable ruler of heaven and earth, of believer and non-believer. So...I guess I am emphasising that His rule is total and not partial as some attest.

• The end of the millennium involves release of Satan, signs of the times, and the anti-Christ, and the almost destruction of the church.
For the Amillenialist, the only thing left to be done is the destruction of the world and the judgement. That is being held off by the grace and mercy of God the Father.

• The millennium will conclude with the visible second coming of Jesus in the sky,
And that he will not come to the earth.

• one resurrection of all, both Christians and unbelievers,
• judgement and destruction of Satan and the wicked, and
Satan is already defeated, judged and imprisoned on death row.

• the heavens and earth being recreated and made new.
The old earth will be destroyed by fervent heat.


Click to expand...

Just some of my musings and off-hand comments. One thing is for sure; amillennialism is the opposite of geo-political eschatology.

Luke 17:20KJV
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
2 Pet 3 is the best bet and the longest NT statement on eschatology.
Nothing is to happen in Israel or the middle east. There is nothing Judaic about it.
The day of judgement for all mankind comes and this earth is destroyed.
There is a new heavens and new earth.
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
Zadok899 said:
I appreciate your comments on the pre-mil section. I shall read more on these particular points you make and update the list appropriately. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I've found that the points of another's faith that caused me to question what I had read in the Bible caused me to re-examine why I felt the way I did and that helped me to better understand the nature of my own faith.
 
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