The Messiah and the Law

[Jacob]

When we affirm those things that are true, and we know salvation is in the Messiah, why do some want to believe in the Messiah but reject the Law?

The Messiah and the Law or the Messiah without the Law.

What do you think?

This is about coming to know the truth.

I acknowledge that the new covenant came about 2000 years ago.

 

[RBBI]

Because after the original disciples died and the body went somewhat underground, they lost their Jewish roots and the Jewish understanding of the scriptures that went along with it.

Then Constantine added in some pagan festivals to counter the ones they were celebrating to keep the peace in his lands, and later they had nothing left but Greek copies of what were originally Hebrew scriptures. They have one extant copy of Matthew in Hebrew, and I think I read they have found more.

The Greek philosophical mindset is so diametrically different to the Jewish mindset and language it barely compares, further making translation even more difficult because the words do not always convey what was actually spoken, and/or a small shade of meaning totally hides the correlation between different scripts in different books. Worse yet, the Greek scholars might have 3 words they could have chosen from to replace one Hebrew word, but not understanding the idioms or customs, they unknowingly pick the word that obscures the true meaning.

You have no doubt experienced this yourself trying to converse at some point with someone foreign to English, who is just learning the language. Oft times they'll tell you they have no word like that in their language.

 

[Jacob]

Because after the original disciples died and the body went somewhat underground, they lost their Jewish roots and the Jewish understanding of the scriptures that went along with it.

This sounds like your understanding of the church which was in its origin and conception entirely Jewish.

Then Constantine added in some pagan festivals to counter the ones they were celebrating to keep the peace in his lands, and later they had nothing left but Greek copies of what were originally Hebrew scriptures. They have one extant copy of Matthew in Hebrew, and I think I read they have found more.

It is true that the gospel of Matthew does exist in Hebrew. Pagan festivals are prohibited by both Judaism and Christianity, to include both Jewish and Christian thought.

The Greek philosophical mindset is so diametrically different to the Jewish mindset and language it barely compares, further making translation even more difficult because the words do not always convey what was actually spoken, and/or a small shade of meaning totally hides the correlation between different scripts in different books. Worse yet, the Greek scholars might have 3 words they could have chosen from to replace one Hebrew word, but not understanding the idioms or customs, they unknowingly pick the word that obscures the true meaning.

The Greek world and philosophical mindset stand in stark contrast to all things Jewish. Communicating the Law where it is not known does present a challenge.

You have no doubt experienced this yourself trying to converse at some point with someone foreign to English, who is just learning the language. Oft times they'll tell you they have no word like that in their language.

Of course translation presents a challenge. There are many things that are dealt with by any translator. But we do have the Bible in English. Can we read the Bible in its original language? It is not necessary as a native English speaker, but it is very valuable.

 

[Totton Linnet]

For us to fulfil the law is to die

The wages of sin is death...do YOU want to fulfil the law then? or will you accept that Christ has fulfilled the law on our behalf?

 

[Jacob]

For us to fulfil the law is to die

Can you explain better what you mean here?

The wages of sin is death...do YOU want to fulfil the law then? or will you accept that Christ has fulfilled the law on our behalf?

I recommend reading the following passages.

Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 8:1-4 NASB - 1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[RBBI]

This sounds like your understanding of the church which was in its origin and conception entirely Jewish.

I don't see any other one in there, do you? I see Yeshua and the disciples going to synagogues, seders, sukkot, Jewish wedding of someone that had something to do with the temple (water pots), and 3000 Jews repenting and receiving the Ruach HaKodesh on Shavuot, receiving an anointing from a woman who was likely the daughter of a priest who believed, else she would not have had access to the anointing box.

I don't see anyone revering Mary, arguing over whether or not both baptisms are necessary so they can create their own sect, ect.

They managed to hide it pretty well, but it's not hidden to those that have eyes to see and no pet doctrines to uphold and no allegiance to a pile of bricks.

 

[Jacob]

I don't see any other one in there, do you? I see Yeshua and the disciples going to synagogues, seders, sukkot, Jewish wedding of someone that had something to do with the temple (water pots), and 3000 Jews repenting and receiving the Ruach HaKodesh on Shavuot, receiving an anointing from a woman who was likely the daughter of a priest who believed, else she would not have had access to the anointing box.

I don't see anyone revering Mary, arguing over whether or not both baptisms are necessary so they can create their own sect, ect.

They managed to hide it pretty well, but it's not hidden to those that have eyes to see and no pet doctrines to uphold and no allegiance to a pile of bricks.

Much of what you have said here I do not know. But that which is in the scriptures I do. Therefore for you it ought to come down to the veracity of the claims you have here made.

 

[RBBI]

Well, if you know the scriptures, then what I said should have jogged your memory of specific incidents recorded. Here are some examples....

Celebrating a Jewish feast....

Mark 14:12 On the first day of matzah, when they sacrificed the Pesach, his talmidim asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make ready that you may eat the Pesach?" 13 He sent two of his talmidim, and said to them, "Go into the city, and there you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him, 14 and wherever he enters in, tell the master of the house, 'The Teacher says, "Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Pesach with my talmidim?"'

Blessing of the bread and the wine.

Mark 14:22 As they were eating, Yeshua took bread, and when he had blessed, he broke it, and gave to them, and said, "Take, eat. This is my body." 23 He took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them. They all drank of it. 24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many.

Attending a Jewish wedding.....complete with water pots for cleansing....

John 2:6 HNV Now there were six water pots of stone set there after the Yehudim' manner of purifying, containing two or three metretes apiece.

Attending Sukkot....

John 7:1 After these things, Yeshua walked in the Galil, for he would not walk in Yehudah, because the Yehudim sought to kill him. 2 Now the feast of the Yehudim, the Feast of Sukkot, was at hand. 3 His brothers therefore said to him, "Depart from here, and go into Yehudah, that your talmidim also may see your works which you do. 4 For no one does anything in secret, and himself seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, reveal yourself to the world." 5 For even his brothers didn't believe in him. 6 Yeshua therefore said to them, "My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. 7 The world can't hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil. 8 You go up to the feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, because my time is not yet fulfilled." 9 Having said these things to them, he stayed in the Galil. 10 But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly, but as it were in secret.

 

[Jacob]

Well, if you know the scriptures, then what I said should have jogged your memory of specific incidents recorded. Here are some examples....

Celebrating a Jewish feast....

Mark 14:12 On the first day of matzah, when they sacrificed the Pesach, his talmidim asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make ready that you may eat the Pesach?" 13 He sent two of his talmidim, and said to them, "Go into the city, and there you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him, 14 and wherever he enters in, tell the master of the house, 'The Teacher says, "Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Pesach with my talmidim?"'

Blessing of the bread and the wine.

Mark 14:22 As they were eating, Yeshua took bread, and when he had blessed, he broke it, and gave to them, and said, "Take, eat. This is my body." 23 He took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them. They all drank of it. 24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many.

Attending a Jewish wedding.....complete with water pots for cleansing....

John 2:6 HNV Now there were six water pots of stone set there after the Yehudim' manner of purifying, containing two or three metretes apiece.

Attending Sukkot....

John 7:1 After these things, Yeshua walked in the Galil, for he would not walk in Yehudah, because the Yehudim sought to kill him. 2 Now the feast of the Yehudim, the Feast of Sukkot, was at hand. 3 His brothers therefore said to him, "Depart from here, and go into Yehudah, that your talmidim also may see your works which you do. 4 For no one does anything in secret, and himself seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, reveal yourself to the world." 5 For even his brothers didn't believe in him. 6 Yeshua therefore said to them, "My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. 7 The world can't hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil. 8 You go up to the feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, because my time is not yet fulfilled." 9 Having said these things to them, he stayed in the Galil. 10 But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly, but as it were in secret.

These are not what I thought of. I have no argument against these being specific incidents recorded, however.

 

[CherubRam]

For us to fulfil the law is to die

The wages of sin is death...do YOU want to fulfil the law then? or will you accept that Christ has fulfilled the law on our behalf?

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[achduke]

For us to fulfil the law is to die

The wages of sin is death...do YOU want to fulfil the law then? or will you accept that Christ has fulfilled the law on our behalf?

The Law is not sin. Sin is what happens when we transgress the Law.

 

[Bradley D]

The Law makes me aware of my sins. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for sin because he was the only person without sin. Thus being able to fulfill the law perfectly. God sees me through Jesus whom I accept as my savior by repentance for sin, belief in Jesus Christ, and amending my life.

 

[OCTOBER23]

IT IS NOT THE HEARER BUT THE DOER.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Jacob]

The Law makes me aware of my sins. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for sin because he was the only person without sin. Thus being able to fulfill the law perfectly. God sees me through Jesus whom I accept as my savior by repentance for sin, belief in Jesus Christ, and amending my life.

What does it mean that Jesus is the only one to fulfill the law perfectly?

What does it mean to fulfill the law perfectly?